pushing basics

[Drea]

I've ordered the DVD set, but it hasn't arrived yet. In the mean time, I want to get started with pushing, but have some questions if I'm doing it right, and if it even matters.

I have a food pouch (I use a Premier Treat Bag) on my right hip, a bit of kibble in my right hand and I'm walking backwards while enticing (don't have to try hard due to Tucker's food drive) Tucker to eat out of my hand. At the same time, I use my left hand to push on his chest. I seem to remember reading somewhere on the forum that it doesn't matter where I push as long as it's not on the larynx. Here's what happens for Tucker: he'll come towards me and eat out of my hand even as I'm walking (jogging) backwards, but as soon as he gets a mouthful (or less), or he's gotten everything out of my hand, he stops to eat or chew or whatever it is that he does. Is this normal? I then entice him to come get more food. I don't really feel like I'm pushing or that he's pushing, more like I'm making contact. It's hard to say because he is so large.

[neilsattin]

Hi Drea,

Great to see you here. My entire family (excluding me, so far, knocking on wood) has been stricken with something horrendous, so I've been nursing everyone and neglecting my online duties. Apologies!

It sounds like you might need to adjust a few things.

First, what you're doing with your food hand. You want to limit access to the food while you're doing the "push" part (maybe just enough foodiness to ensure that Tucker maintains contact with you), and then, after you feel like you're getting a push, zing Tucker with all the food in your hand. At which point, the pushing is over.

Second, you might also need to adjust the position of your hands. Perhaps your food hand is too close to your pushing hand, so it's too easy for Tucker to get at the kibble and pry his way between your fingers? Just a thought.

Thirdly, you might want to take a step back (not literally) and ease more into the pushing. With an energetic, food-motivated dog (as it sounds like Tucker is) you should be able to actually get a decent push without having to move too much on your part. Perhaps you're backing away too quickly (not too quickly for "ever" - but for now, while you're trying to feel your way through the dynamic in its early stages). Try simply hand-feeding him, and pushing on his chest while you do that. Can you get him to push back? Can you push harder and get him to push harder? Can you back away a little and maintain the push through that backing away?

Sometimes it's a lot to coordinate all at once. It's like learning to drive a stick shift. Eventually you get a feel for it, and you don't have to think about all the moving parts.

I hope this was helpful!

[Drea]

Ahhh. Okay. I'm so glad I posted. You are right; it is like learning to drive a stick shift. Push the clutch while letting up on the gas, all the while steering and looking at the road...good analogy.

Thanks for the clarification; I'll try another round tomorrow.

[Drea]

So I refined the way I'm pushing with Tucker and I think I've got it. Well, in theory. It seems awkward at first. The good news is that my foster, Moses, is great at pushing, and pushes really hard, right off the bat (also very food driven). I just have to pick a hand signal that means "Ready...push!", and remember to use it!

[BrownieNJoyce]

Originally Posted by Drea

it is like learning to drive a stick shift. Push the clutch while letting up on the gas, all the while steering and looking at the road...good analogy.

yeah, this is a great way to describe the learning for pushing which I am still developing/refining in my practice with my dog Brownie. I was just away for 10 days and my husband isn't into taking it on yet, so Brownie had a bit of a break from it. Nonetheless, he picked up where we left off, but it was me who had to locate the motor-plan in my brain and get back into it. Still "stalling out" sometimes And I find that Brownie now seems at a bit of a plateau with the strength of his push when we are just in the back yard, but I'm using it on our walks now and when he starts to get energized I get a really good push. See my other post for today re squirrel distraction.

[yogabeary]

"You want to limit access to the food while you're doing the "push" part "

Aaaah! Such a vital part that I somehow missed but what a difference it makes. I feel a bit silly. I am actually getting a push now. Thank you Neil.

[BrownieNJoyce]

Originally Posted by yogabeary

"You want to limit access to the food while you're doing the "push" part "

Aaaah! Such a vital part that I somehow missed but what a difference it makes. I feel a bit silly. I am actually getting a push now. Thank you Neil.

I had the same experience discovering at some point by re-watching the DVD that I was releasing the food too soon. Probably a common thing when trying to get the coordination down. I try to watch the DVD periodically to reinforce my mental image of what I'm trying to do. It helps a lot. I'm planning to have my husband videotape me sometime soon also.

[Drea]

So does this mean that they can smell the food, but they just can't access it? I'm still refining my technique.

[BrownieNJoyce]

Originally Posted by Drea

So does this mean that they can smell the food, but they just can't access it? I'm still refining my technique.

That's my take on it, although in my case, I feed raw and it's messy enough that there's usually some on the vinyl glove of my feeding hand that Brownie can access even before the zing/release. This doesn't seem to be a problem since the main chunk is still in my closed fist until he has pushed "enough" which is either what I can handle (given that my brain is still refining the "motor plan" for this activity) or what I sense he can give me before he would start to back down. My impression, for whatever reason, is that if you need to open your hand a little so your dog can smell or lick the food or even get at a little bit to get your dog moving that it's okay. When I first started I couldn't push at all. Brownie was okay being touched while eating from my hand but wouldn't move towards me if I moved my hand away even an inch. But gradually it all changed and he's a great pusher now! Even jumps like you'll see Nola do in Neil's video.

Keep posting!

[neilsattin]

There are not many "hard and fast" rules for what you're doing - the important thing is the overall dynamic that you're developing with your pup.

It is a good idea to keep the distinction clear between "off" (hand is closed - can't get food) and "on" (hand is open, food is being zinged...zung?). And your dog will learn the rhythm of the game, so that eventually the food part becomes less important (not necessarily the "getting" of the food - but the smell/temptiness of the food).

If your dog isn't too nippy, though (which would potentially put your hand at risk), it's fine for the dog to smell, lick at, etc. - as long as it doesn't interfere with the overall goal of maintaining contact, pushing, moving together, getting your dog into higher and higher states of drive while interacting directly with you. Trust your gut. And protect the soft fleshy parts of your hand.