All the Barking

[Valerie]

Lee, Wow! I'm flattered! I was initially clicker training Eka so I read a lot of clicker/behavioral mod books earlier this year. And she still knows sit, lie down (sometimes), turn around (with big hand signals). And that's also how with all the super yummy treats I was using she stopped eating her kibble and became very picky, though now she eats well with a bit of drive and the gentle beginnings of pushing. I did like clicker training but the picky eating thing made it so that I would train one day and then she wouldn't eat a real meal for two days afterward because she wanted treats and not kibble. I became so frustrated with only being able to train every few days that I backed off on the training entirely. I'd be interested in seeing how clicker and ndt could work together.

Jannik, I'm looking forward to hearing about your breakthrough. Can't have too many stories as far as I'm concerned. I'm such a newbie dog owner I really appreciate hearing what other folks are doing.

Chris, I can't wait until the time when I can get Eka to come to me instead of jumping on people or barking at firework-like pops and booms.

[neilsattin]

Valerie - in reference to the emotional battery -

You're right, that the charge can be stored over time, and that the act of pushing relieves the stored charge (stress) - along with other ways of satisfying your dog's prey drive.

Through practicing pushing, what you are doing is increasing your dog's capacity to experience high levels of energy and stay relaxed - i.e. let the energy move through them, in the moment.

Because it is also giving you a vehicle for resolving your dog's energy and stress, it IS useful to do pushing in the moments when your dog becomes energized, rather than waiting 'til later. Here's why:

Let's say you have a visitor to your house, and your dog gets all energized. If you use the technique of redirection in that moment, you will be able to teach your dog that "that feeling, the one that you're feeling right now because that visitor is energizing you - you can resolve that with me." When I'm working with a dog, I like to use as MANY of these moments (the moments that a dog is energized by something else in the environment) as possible to teach the dog that the way to resolve the feeling of being energized, in any context, is through interacting with me.

So for you - you can remind yourself that the reason you're pushing in those moments is to not only help your dog deal with the energy of the moment (and avoid storing it as stress) - but also to teach them to resolve it with YOU.

And, ultimately, also teaching a dog an energized down/stay will help them learn to stay calm/focused even when energized, and even without you there to resolve it with them.

The thing is, to store the energy in the battery as "stress" doesn't ultimately feel any better to a dog than it would feel to us. So, for now, I'd do my best to avoid relying on the battery - and instead to keep the circuit flowing.

Energy in - energy out. In the moment, if possible.

I hope this makes sense.

Originally Posted by Valerie

Hi Neil, once you mentioned the 'emotional battery' something clicked, even though I'd read the phrase several times already. I realized I was worried about getting outside right away along behavioral modification lines so she'd 'know' the pushing was for that incident. But a battery holds it's charge until it's needed and it doesn't matter which event the pushing is for just that it happens, right?

So if I start pushing right away whenever anything comes up and then gradually I can increase the time between exciting/stressful event and pushing as long as I have regular pushing sessions then at some point she'll be able to hold the stress until these times knowing she will get release at some point through me. She will be able to hold more and for longer periods in her battery as long as regular pushing happens.

This was a pretty big breakthrough in my thinking (assuming I'm heading in the right direction) and I'm rereading the book and it's like it's a new book.

[neilsattin]

Hi Willum44 -

Please let me know if my recent response in this thread to Valerie helps you understand what's going on in this situation. It actually sounds to me like your tennis ball solution was a perfect example - Rosie was feeling energized by the mower, and the barking was a way of letting some of that energy out. What she was REALLY telling you was "give me some way to deal with this stress". The tennis ball did just that.

What would be great is if you could have someone else mow the lawn, and you could use the technique of redirection with her in relation to the lawnmower. Please keep me/us posted!

Originally Posted by willum44

I have been tugging and pushing with my dog Rosie, a 9mo old Shiba. I have been doing it outside and sometimes inside. In too have noticed an increase in barking plus more contact with me. Today was quite stressful. We had a long walk off leash on a deserted country lane. Later I cut my lawn. This caused a lot of stress in her as she barked constantly at the mower. I put her in the house and she barked. I brought her out again and still barked. The only way to stop the barking was to throw a tennis ball as I worked. When the lawn was finished and we came inside for me to cook lunch, she crashed under the kitchen table and slept for a couple of hours. Any one got a suggestion to help with this type of situation.

[jsharp]

Hi y'all,

I have a question regarding the barking/pushing and crate training issue. Our puppy barks a lot when he gets in the crate, which is almost always directly after being outside. From a NDT standpoint, do you let him bark until he settles down or take him out for some more exercise (I'm not pushing with him yet, just tug-of-war or chase), given that he's apparently energized? I'm hesitant to take him out and reinforce the barking, but I don't want to be missing great opportunities to help him manage his energy.

Any thoughts?

Jeremy

[neilsattin]

Is your pup settling after a little barking? Or is the barking constant?

It can be helpful to ensure that the crate is dark (plastic crates work better than the wire mesh crates) and somewhere out-of-the-way (so your presence isn't stimulating your dog). A dark, quiet nook away from the hustle and bustle.

[jsharp]

Thanks for the reply, Neil. He's been doing much better lately - it (logically) seems that he's much more willing to hit the crate for a nap after a lot of exercise. He usually only barks for a couple of minutes before settling in to sleep for a bit.

I've thought about the "dark crate" idea for a while now and will certainly try that to help him become more comfortable in there. As for putting the crate somewhere quiet, I'd heard/read that it was nice to keep the puppy in a high traffic area so that he doesn't feel "abandoned," but it sounds like NDT would say otherwise. We'll experiment with that as well!

What an adventure with this little guy - it's so amazing to see him grow and learn about the world

[neilsattin]

Absolutely, and keep us posted.

I always recommend a quiet place...so you avoid adding energy to the system (and stress of not being able to do anything about it). Taking a few minutes to settle is normal. Never-ending barking would suggest a different approach was perhaps necessary.

[rudy]

This is interesting about the barking...

Lou has a very big deep intense bark - you'd NEVER guess it came from a cocker! When he arrived 6 months ago he barked at every thing all the time for no reason at all and with no target. I ignored the barking when we were outside and it stopped. Inside, I taught him Leave It, so when he'd bark I'd say Leave It and he'd come get food from me and the "for no reason" barking stopped. (But don't ring my door bell....)

I started pushing with him about a week ago - and some tug - and yesterday the barking came back with a vengence. Wow, is there a lot of barking going on. Even more so when we come inside from our morning pushing and chasing play. I am going to hold out hope that this is a sign that we are moving in the right direction.

There is no doubt that he has a backlog of emotional turmoil. Lou and I are, together, learning how to deal with emotional backlogs in a healthy way