Giant Breeds, Puppies, Pushing, and Bloat

[taoofblue]

THIS MESSAGE WAS ORIGINALLY SENT TO NEIL SATTIN. BUT I'VE LOVE TO HEAR MULTIPLE OPINIONS ON THIS TOPIC. I'VE EDITED AND UPDATED SOME OF THE CONTENT FROM THE 1ST DRAFT.

Hi Neil,

How are you? I trust all is well. First and foremost I would like to thank you for all the wonderful information you have on your site. This has helped me get started with my puppy, while I await the arrival of Kevin's book. It should be here soon.

I'll try to make this message as succinct as I can. I have a tendency to ramble which I will do my best to curtail.

I just got my first puppy! I am so excited. I've wanted the exact dog that I have since I was 12 yrs young. Now 17 years later she is sleeping in her crate at this very moment, after we went outside for a quick game of pushing and eating. I was lucky enough when I was a kid, to have read most books on dog training available at the local library. I then wrote my parents an essay on why we should get a dog and why it should be this specific breed. No dice. We were a busy family.

I got lucky though. My uncles were good dog owners and trainers and one of them had a friend who did search and rescue, and hunting dogs, so I learned early about energy and play, and never really bought into the dominance hierarchy bull crap. I can't remember if my uncle had Kevin's book back in 1993 or so, but when I read his, yours and LCK's blog it all rang out so true. This is the ONLY way to train a dog.

Ok, down to the real question...."Billie" (Holiday), the pup, is a 13 1/2 week old Harlequin Great Dane. Now I know these dogs are prone to bloat and I have to be careful about how I exercise her close to eating, and even how much exercise to give her, but I wondered if either, you, Kevin, or LCK, had ever worked with this breed while they grew and used the pushing game.

She currently is eating about 4 cups a day. I feed her for the moment 4x a day. Because she is still a puppy, I usually feed her the first meal in her crate when she wakes up. I live on the west coast of Vancouver Island, in Canada, in sleepy fishing, surfing tourist spot: it is a big giant dog park. We wait about an hour or so, then head to the beach for a light walk. The second meal around noon I usually do pushing with her. Then perhaps, if were not going to go for a second walk, I'll push with her 3rd meal around 6-ish. And she gets her last meal around 11pm in her crate.This will probably diminish by one in the next couple of weeks, as she gets to be about 4 months, and around 6 months or so she goes to eating 2x a day, but that's neither here not there. I haven't really started pushing with each meal yet, or doing any serious training because I haven't read Kevin's book yet. In fact thanks to yours and Kevin's site, LCK's blog, and even Hero's daily journal, and some added common sense I feel I've had a good start. Thank you all.

I know with this breed and other Giants, they shouldn't be exercised within a half hour of eating, and for about an hour to hour and a half after eating. How does this work with pushing? Will it trigger bloat as her meal sizes increase, and the feeding times decrease? By six months or so she'll be eating about 2-3 cups at least per meal. Then it'll be closer to 3-4 as she approaches the 1year mark.

From what my logic tells me, because she and you are usually moving in a straight line with pushing, she shouldn't have any issues with her stomach flipping and bloat and torsion. Plus this is interspersed with box work, and what not. And I figure she's eating slower this way, a mouthful at a time; instead of gobbling 1 cup of food down in 1 minute. I also figure that as she grows I could always do about a cup of food, with the training, 10mins or so, then bring her in, massage her down, relax her, and then feed her the rest.

Does this make sense? Have either you, Kevin, or LCK ever worked with this breed? I haven't read Kevin's book yet? Did I start too early with the pushing? She does push, and her motor does rev quite good when we play, and in my opinion this is good. She just found her bark this week!

Sorry for all the questions. I really think NDT is the best training method. Everybody who meets her goes "Wow! She is so well behaved. Good discipline from you right?" And, I say not really. Just play and energy. I let her bite everywhere but face like crazy. They usually look at me funny and I keep walking.

Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. I want her to be healthy and happy. Sheesh...I want her to be the healthiest happiest Great Dane ever! I look forward to getting your DVD's soon. They are my next purchase as soon as I finish Kevin's book, which I hope gets here this week--it's been a month already! Thanks again for all the wisdom you've shared. Thank LCK, and Kevin for me too. I'd love all of your opinions on this, but I couldn't post yet on the forum because I'm waiting for the administrator's ok. Feel free to put it up as I'm sure other people who have large breeds would love an answer.

Ok, that's enough. I've taken up enough of your time already. Again, thank you. I look forward to hearing from you. Until then, I remain

Having a great dane!

Love and Blessings,
Jeff

[Valerie]

Hi Jeff, I have nothing helpful to add except that - I want a Great Dane some day! I look forward to hearing your stories about Billie.

[Chris]

Hi Jeff

Interesting question and I look forward to see what replies you get.

I've always had GSD's and the first three were the big chested boys so bloat was always a worry for me.

I'm new to NDT so had never pushed with food before. I always had the rule for my guys, no food for at least 1/2 hour after exercise and no exercise until 1 hour after food.

I have no worries with the pushing because as you say it's straight pushing and not running around. I will not do any tug or get Ty to chase me work when feeding him due to the worry of bloat though.

I became a raw feeder about 13 years ago for the dogs and there is a belief that a raw feed dog has less chance to bloat but of course there is proof of this.

I understand your worry as a friend has Great Danes and has lost two to bloat.