Pushing technique

[Alec]

Ok so I have a couple of questions related to the technique.

1) Does it matter exactly where your hand it located on the dog? I generally push right below the dogs throat at the top of the chest but I noticed in some of Kevin's pictures that his hand is actually somewhere around the bottom of the jaw and top of the throat.

2) How do you get the dog to push harder? I've noticed that I have been making my dog push longer, not harder by moving away from her and encouraging her. Last night (when I noticed this) I changed to just having her come at me for 1 or 2 pushes then zinged her with the food. This seemed to make the subsequent pushes more energized than before.

Please let me know if you think any of this actually matters.

[neilsattin]

1. It doesn't really matter where your hand is located - just don't push on your dog's esophagus, which could cause some damage. Keep the pushing surface broad, and then settle on what's comfortable for you and your dog.
2. A few ways to make the dog push harder come to mind. You can push your dog off of you completely while moving away (your dog should re-engage for another push. You can get your dog to chase you more before pushing.
3. One of the most basic ways is to actually push harder against your dog. You can be moving backwards with your legs, but pushing against your dog (at increasing degrees of strength) with your pushing hand. Again this is an opportunity to build the dynamic between the two of you. Can you push harder without your dog backing off? Can you push harder gradually enough to get your dog to push harder back?

I realize you left this note awhile back - please let me know how it's going...

Another technique is to attach your dog to a dog trolley/run, which provides extra resistance as they try to push into you.

[BrownieNJoyce]

the above post is really helpful to me. thanks. was just wondering the same thing came to look and here's the info.

[Alec]

The other day I re-watched part of the DVD's and I noticed how much lower Neil was when pushing (even the lab) relative to what I've been doing. I always had "get the dog up on its hind legs" in my mind so that is what I did. Well tonight I tried squatting down further with the hope that my dog would have more power and it seemed to work. She was a little more into. Well it could just be today but maybe this was holding us back.

One other trick came to mind today as well. She loves to heel and so I got a good one going, picked up the speed here and there, had her stop for a sit then called her, etc. and then I got the idea to "stop short" (reference to Seinfeld as I seen another used recently ) and started backpedaling quickly in the opposite direction. She made a cut on a dime and came flying back at me. We mixed this in several times and she really seemed to love it.

I probably should wait a week to see if it was a fluke but figured I’d go ahead and post it. Hope these continue to work and may even help someone else. Happy pushing!

[jojo]

While he's come a long way, my dog isn't the greatest pusher. We're currently living with a friend who has 3 dog that he doesn't fight with, but they stress him. He's also not getting the exercise he's used too and acting mildly stressed by it all, but times are tough. And he doesn't like to push in their yard, even when they're inside and it's just us.

Well, I read your post and mixed up the pushing with the healing and back pedaling and sits and downs and it really helped get him get going better than he has in a week.

I just re-read it again, and I think I have slowly evolved into a more standing stance, it's happened slowly for me as he has gotten better at pushing. The crouching wears on my back, though it was necessary at first or he wouldn't push at all. Tomorrow, I'll make a better effort to stay lower while I push. If only he could return all the massages I give him.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your pushing update, it gave me some needed inspiration.

[BrownieNJoyce]

Originally Posted by jojo

The crouching wears on my back, though it was necessary at first or he wouldn't push at all. Tomorrow, I'll make a better effort to stay lower while I push. If only he could return all the massages I give him.

I agree that staying lower is the key, especially given that no one has figured out how to train dogs to give massages yet

My dog is more that half my body weight and he is strong so, for low pushing (which we did for a long time before he started jumping), I've had to train myself to use good body mechanics, just as you would for lifting something heavy. I need to avoid overusing my back muscles for the lower push position. It helped to watch the way Neil shifts his body weight in the first video with dogs who are doing early pushing.

Here's what I've discovered that I'm doing that is working in case it helps anyone else:
*I have my right foot back (since my food hand is my right hand) for the stability of a wide stance.
*With my knees well bent, so that I am lowering myself without rounding my spine, I position my left elbow close in to the front of my body and keep it there so that, in a way, I am not so much pushing as just providing resistance by using my body weight for my dog to push into. Gives me good stability and I can handle a real strong push from him.
*I can move backward during the push mostly by shifting my weight from my forward/left leg to my back/right leg.
*If I can't move backward in this position during the push because I didn't get my feet just right, then I offer what looks like static resistance but still feels dynamic since I'm always trying be sensitive to the strength of his push.
*I resume moving backward immediately as the push cycle is completing so that the push momentum from my dog propels him forward towards me.

So it's like a brief interlude of staying in one place but the interlude is closely sandwiched by the action of my dog moving towards me as I move backwards. This positioning keeps me from inadvertently leaning forward and trying to use just my arm strength to push because if the pushing hand is out away from my body then my low back muscles work and they are not so happy later.

So, that's the low-down according to Joyce

[Alec]

Originally Posted by jojo

Well, I read your post and mixed up the pushing with the healing and back pedaling and sits and downs and it really helped get him get going better than he has in a week.

...

Anyway, thanks for sharing your pushing update, it gave me some needed inspiration.

Awesome! You're quite welcome. I'm glad it helped.

[Drea]

Up until this morning, I was pushing with my food hand slightly to the right and back of my own body and my pushing hand in front of my midsection. Bear in mind that my dog is tall and strong (he's 97 pounds). But this morning, I put my food hand in front of my own midsection and my pushing hand in front of the food hand. That seemed to work so much better for both of us. Tucker is strong, but he's never pushed so hard as to lift his front feet off the ground. Something to aspire to!

[Alec]

So for the longest time I thought I wasn't going to consistently get a harder push from my dog (she runs at me and is off the ground but I know how strong she really is) and then tonight something quite simple came to mind. I'm not really sure what took me so long to realize it but she basically wasn't pushing any harder because to her she was already close enough to the food. In my mind, I was thinking my hand is still closed and slightly away so she should push more to get it. So she didn't get bored I would just give it to her. Part of the problem is that I push on her chest and therefore her long neck and head are able to reach far making it harder to hold her off. So now I'm holding my hand open so that when she gets there she gets the food no matter but I'm also more cognizant that I need to keep the hand further away and I have to push much harder. I am a fairly strong individual and I really can't hold her off (it seems that I using my shoulder mostly making it harder). I don't know what this means in the long run but at least I’m getting her to push harder for now. If only I could get her to speak (about ready to give up on that one).

[rudy]

Are you getting any sound out of your dog for a speak?

Have you tried stepping on her toes?
Food clasped in hand up by your shoulder. Other hand is pointing at the dog saying Speak. I know I can see Lou's head/heart sink into himself at this point, "collapsing". From there Lou usually comes back out of himself with a WOOOF! But if he gets stuck I can step (not stomp) on his toes/front paw and he jumps off the ground - it doesn't hurt him just gets him flowing again - and then he'll woof when I say speak.