Laidback Lou

[rudy]

I think my Lou is due a name change

I am hoping to get some input as to progressing with Lou.

He LOVES pushing for food. We do push/hup/jog at heel/down on box for both meals every day. He LOVES the on the box stuff. I have added Speak on command also. His bark on command is still very scream-like but sometimes if X trigger happens during training he will BARK.

Later, without food on hand, we play tug. Sometimes he will fetch too - he used to be a fetch machine... not sure what happend there. Sometimes he will push in to me to get the toy from me and tug. If a trigger happens during tug it is usually game over. He loses interest.

When he gets REALLY worked up, like yesturday he was trying to climb through the car window to eat a woman getting into her car beside us, I can further antagonize him (for lack of a better word) by grabbing his legs or flipping his ears or tail or play "biting" his neck with my hands or pushing the toy into his barking mouth until he makes a grumbly noise and then he'll bite and tug on something at least for a few moments (ideally that something is NOT me). It feels pretty intense to me. I generally don't have a high tolerance for intensity and so this is building up my skills too.

Today I had him tied out on the golf course while I was running Rudy. One of my neighbors walked by. Lou for some reason has a relatively calm relationship with this guy - he isn't remotely afraid of Lou and their meetings have been non-stressful. He stopped to talk to me and for some reason the stop-to-talk usually sets Lou off a lot. Lou BARKED a few times and then figured out it was this guy and the bark was more like, "bark...oh, yeah, woof...yeah I guess I should keep woofing...ok...woof". Lou even sat down. LOL Very lackadaisical for Lou.

Any time Lou gets riled up I attempt to get him to bite and tug. So when this guy walked off I teased Lou just a little with the toy and he grabbed it and tugged! It felt very natural.

I think what I am seeing is that Lou will bite/tug only when the energy input is low or his stress is low. "Path of least resistance" keeps coming to mind but I'm not sure why.

Am I moving too fast?

[rudy]

It seems like every time I write here within the next few days Lou and I "get it" and take a step forward.

Something odd happened today though...

I used a Chuck-It to throw a tennis ball. He brought it back and dropped it. He likes to pull the ball out of the cup of the Chuck-It so we play a little bit of tug that way and then I throw the ball and he gets it. As he's running back to me with the ball I pull out his tug toy (tennis ball in a sock) and say, "oooh look what I've got!" and move backwards. He drops the tennis ball and demon runs to me and jumps at me for it. He grabs it and we tug (which mostly looks like me pulling him around by the tug toy) and he wins. I tease him with the Chuck-it and throw the ball and repeat with the tug toy. (Hurray! This is the first time we've really played like that!)

This time when he wins he laid down with the toy to chew and I pretended to fall down on my back and said, "oh Lou you got me!" I "fell" about 2 ft from him. Lou jumped on me, made this sound that was low in tone and volume that was like, arwawawa and grabbed my shirt and my arm. I felt teeth.

He's made that sound and grabbed me before. When he is worked up over something and I touch him he'll grab my pony tail or my hand. He also made that sound when he tugged the jacket after chasing Basil.

I said, "oooh my!" to him and sat up and he backed off. I was not prepared for that response from him. I grabbed the tug toy, tugged with him again, let him win and again fell on the ground... once again he jumped me and made that sound.

I tugged again (am I crazy) and he immediately rolled over on his back with the toy in his mouth so I dropped my end and walked off.

So, is this falling down stuff just too much for him? Is it overloading his circuits?

[Sang]

Are you comfortable with Lou's behavior when you "fall" down? This is a good one for Lee or Neil to jump into, but I'd say that if you're ok with it, then there's no problem. Seems to me like Lou is just starting to feel comfortable enough with you to start showing you some deeper energy, and sometimes that can seem kind of rough or nasty. But it's ok. It means your digging deeper into his physical memories and moving some older energy that's been stuck.

Also, and you already probably know this, but when you lower your height to Lou's level, you're removing all your predator energy and switching to prey energy, which of course makes Lou flip too, since he's going from his feeling of resistance to attraction. Once you're on the ground, his attraction to you increases dramatically and he feels safe to express himself. When you're standing above him, he still feels that resistance and holds back more.

I don't know if any of that answered your question at all. But hopefully you get something from it.

[rudy]

Thanks Sang!

I am OK with Lou doing that as long as it is moving in the right direction. It IS a tiny bit scary but he has had numerous opportunities to really hurt me and he hasn't. I can't count the number of times my hand/arm/head has been in his mouth and I have been (mostly) unscathed. I think I'll remember to keep a 2nd toy on me so he can go for that instead.

Trust the dog If falling on the ground moves old energy then I'll do it more often.

Lou chased a golf cart down my street today. We were out in the yard pushing, etc, and I'd dropped his long lead. I didn't see the cart but Lou did! I hurt my knee yesterday so I wasn't moving fast enough to grab the leash. Lou hesistated for a few seconds but was deaf to my, "Lou ready?" Lou probably chased him 200 yards. I yelled after the golfer that my dog was chasing him but don't touch the dog! He stopped the cart and got out and Lou turned right around and ran home. He didn't go after the guy at all. Progress! The guy thought it was hysterical. Lou loved it but has been randy all day.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by rudy

He stopped the cart and got out and Lou turned right around and ran home. He didn't go after the guy at all. Progress! The guy thought it was hysterical. Lou loved it but has been randy all day.

Awesome! Just give him a bite so that he can feel resolved.

As far as when you're playing with him at his level, to keep things safe for you, you can always tie him up or keep him on lead so you can still have control over him if things get out of your comfort zone.

Hope that helps

[rudy]

Oh I tried tried tried to get him to bite something -a toy or a ball - but he wasn't interested. But he did push for food. We just aren't there yet with the bite work.

[Sang]

Yeah, it can take a while with some dogs. But it will come

[rudy]

He did it!

We were out on the golf course after it closed tonight playing fetch tug. I didn't see the golf cart go by but Lou did and he was GONE. He had the long lead on but I still couldn't catch him. He chased them down and barked.

The men in the cart thought it was funny and kept on driving. After about 100 yards Lou came back toward me just in time for the 2nd cart... I think this guy was afraid of Lou because he kept swerving the cart... of course Lou LOVED it. New Game!

Anyway, after another 200 yard sprint after the cart he came running back at me. I was holding his toy (tennis ball in sock) and said Lou Ready?! He grabbed it and tugged like CRAZY. And, he won!....the extraordinary biter and tugger that he is.

We have now had 2 days of extraodinarily fun tug and fetch tug. Lou REALLY likes to tug my food pouch... at this point I will tug anything he likes

Tonight, Rudy, my 12 year old also wanted to tug. He LOVES plush squeakies and I'd brought home for him a new toy pheasant today which he had carried around the whole evening. He'll carry that toy for days. Rudy had the pheasant's head in his mouth so I got on hands and knees and grabbed the tail in my mouth and tugged (the things we do for doggy love). You should see his tail! Loves it. He won too, of course.

It really does take time and persistance mixed with trial and error.

I played fetch tug this morning with Lou in a church ball field by their parking lot. They run a preschool so there were kids and kid noises. The road is being expanded so there were loud diesel engines, beeping, men in hats, etc etc etc. Lou tugged like a wild man and then FELL ASLEEP amidst all the craziness and noise while I ran Rudy.

Hallelujia. It's a miracle.

[Sang]

Yeah!!! Get on with your bad selves!