Fear - Thunderstorms

[mark]

(not sure where to post this...)

I was wondering if NDT has anything to say about general fears (e.g. of noises) - im not sure it should, as i guess fear is not related to prey drive...

i assume desensitisation is the route, but wondered if at some stage some NDT techniques might be useful?

at the moment lizzy, wont even take food at the mere hint of a thunderstorm approaching, so cant see that we would be able to push or anything at that time

update:
Ive just noticed kevin has posted a comment on his blog today, which says fear cannot be desensitised only reinforced,
and that desire via hunger, is the way thru this, but as i mentioned before, at these times lizzy will not eat a thing...
(http://naturaldogtraining.com/why-do...-at-strangers/)
interesting what he says about personality too, sounds very much like lizzy - looks like ive still got my work cut out.

[Lee Charles Kelley]

One of the reasons some dogs get so terribly frightened of thunderstorms is that the noise of the thunder, along with the drop in air pressure, etc., creates a fear reaction while the dog is safe inside its den. The normal response to a fearful stimulus is fight or flight. But with a thunderstorm there's nowhere to run, and nothing for the dog to fight back against (i.e., nothing for it to bite). So actually, the pushing exercise probably will help. You would just do it at your dog's normal meal times, not when she's already in a state of panic.

What the pushing exercise does is helps a dog push past her own internal barriers, fears, phobias, etc. Once she'll push really hard for her meals, then you can begin playing tug-of-war with her. Once she'll do that you can move on to "push-of-war." Once she can do that, things like thunder and lightning won't throw her off balance so easily.

Here's an article that explains what I mean: An Open Letter to New York Dog Trainers

You should also teach her to "speak" on command, then when there's a storm have her bark at the thunder. Once a dog can "attack" the thing that's scaring her, she'll usually feel better, at least temporarily. You'll still have to do the pushing exercise to help re-boot her sense of her own power.

By the way, the trick to understanding the difference between NDT and behavioral science techniques is that since all behavior is fundamentally an expression of emotion, the key to solving behavioral problems is to find a way to change the dog's internal emotional state, not its overt behavior. Techniques like desensitization don't work because they're not designed to change the dog's internal sense of emotional balance, just its outward expression. So it's a cosmetic solution to a systemic problem.

I hope this helps!
LCK
“Changing the World, One Dog at a Time”
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[mark]

thanks, so seems like I need to get the pushing going with alot more energy!
... we do pushing outside, but ive not managed to get it to work for redirection yet - let alone a thunderstorm

pushing at mealtimes - ah, i have a bit of a problem here, as feed a raw food diet, which i cant really mix with pushing - perhaps i need to suspend this for a while.... also, i assume this feeding has to be done outside?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by mark

pushing at mealtimes - ah, i have a bit of a problem here, as feed a raw food diet, which i cant really mix with pushing - perhaps i need to suspend this for a while.... also, i assume this feeding has to be done outside?

I'm like you and feed raw and I draw the line at feeding green tripe by hand I am lucky that we have a very good commercial raw food company here who make wonderful dry treats from their food, the dogs (and cats) just love them and they are good in the hands. Maybe you could dehydrate some of your dogs food into treats?

[Henry]

I'm a raw feeder too and, you're right, you just can't push feed a lamb shank! When I started NDT a year ago, I was still feeding kibble and I push fed every meal for 5 months with great results.
I still like to push a whole meal at least once every week or two. Henry just doesn't push like I want him to for the occasional treat. I buy Nature's Variety premade raw and just moosh it up in plastic bag and put it in my waist pouch. I tried using plastic gloves too but it was just a mess, so I use my bare hands. I justmake sure to bring a bunch of hand wipes with me and wash my hands really well when I get home. So far no problems.

[Henry]

I meant to say I push fed every meal for 5 weeks, not 5 months!!

[neilsattin]

Yes, I'd be curious to hear what other raw foodies have done. I usually end up with something like lots of cubes of raw steak (still with a hungry dog) - although a client recently used diced up raw sweet potato (for a lesson, even) without issue.

Maybe you figure out a simple, raw "mono-meal" that can be easily parceled out, like a kibble would be, and use that for one of the days meals (with pushing/training) - and then you focus more on tug-o-push-o-war training around the evening meal?

Just a thought...might even be worth it's own "raw food options" thread. Anyone care to start?

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Henry

I'm a raw feeder too and, you're right, you just can't push feed a lamb shank!

I'm really surprised you don't have lots of 'raw food' options that are dry on the hands for pushing. Here in little old NZ we have the K9 treats, Ziwipeak and Holistic Biscuits. All of which can be used towards the dog meal but you stay with your natural diet. I do know that the K9 will soon be sold in the USA. Guess I'm spoilt for choose here

[Sang]

One of my dogs is on a raw food diet since she's always had digestive issues. So I just cut up raw chicken and hand feed her that when pushing and it works great. Similar to what Neil was saying about using cubes of raw meat. It does make your hand stickier than kibble, but hey, it's going to get covered in dog slobber anyway, so what's the difference

[Lee Charles Kelley]

I use latex gloves, no matter what the dog's diet is like. You can probably buy a box from your local pharmacy.

LCK