A question for Neil re: Kevin working with Honey

[donnieo]

I don't know how many of you are on Facebook, but Kevin has recently posted two videos of him working with Honey, a reactive Staffordshire Terrier. In the videos, he spends a lot of time trying to elicit a bark from her, coos to her with a very silly voice as well as plays tug. He does things to "collapse her fear", like make sudden movements towards her and of course his trademark huffing and growling. He also does gives Honey the "rub-a-dub" which Rudy describes in her post about her experience at the Behan farm. By the end of the second video, you can see Honey softening and starting to play with the dogs that Kevin has posted up in his yard.

On a recent episode of Quantum Canine ("Turning Fear to Joy through Hunger"), Kevin recommended to the owner of a fearful dog to push her away then zing her with food. Eventually, the guy was actually shoving the dog then backing away, then the dog would come towards him. Near the end, the dog was almost ready to "hup".

I tried these techniques on Jinxsie because I felt like we were hitting a bit of a wall as far as the amount of energy she was willing to express. Well, they worked like gangbusters! She is giving me a much stronger bark more consistently and pushing much harder than before. She seems to especially enjoy the shoving. I'll give her a big push then run away while teasing her with food, and turn that into a pretty good heel. Today was an especially successful day. There's one crazy beagle that passes by very often while we are working and she is extremely attracted to it, lunging and barking whenever she sees it. Well, today I actually got her to channel that energy to me. There are also two other dogs that pass by that she is normally interested in but is fairly easy to re-channel; well today when they passed she stopped to look at them and I started petting her and telling her "good girl". She totally melted into the ground and rolled on her back for a rub-a-dub. After they passed, she gave me some really good pushing. We've also been able to transition our tug games into push-of-war, which is definitely a big step.

Neil, the question I have concerns the techniques on your videos as compared to what Kevin does. My impression is that you have a much gentler approach to NDT than he does. Don't get me wrong, I think that your videos are great for explaining the philosophies and techniques of NDT. I really enjoy them and still watch them, not always so much for the content as for feeling grounded and confident about the process. However, I think that if I didn't start doing more than pushing to get that energy out, we would have hit the wall again. Do you use any of these techniques, and if so, why didn't you include them on your videos?

[neilsattin]

Hey Donnie,

First off - excellent that you're seeing such progress in your work with Jinxsie!

I do use all (or most) of the techniques that I learned with Kevin when I work with dogs. Many of the enhancements (for instance, pushing a dog away, then taking off on a run) are things that I've tried to touch on in my writing (both here in the forum and on the blog). They're also the kinds of things that I talk with people about in coaching sessions (both in-person and over-the-phone), which is where much of my time has been focused these days.

As for the DVDs - my goal in making them was to put together the techniques that I personally have found to be the most useful to the most number of people in a way that gives the viewer a solid foundation in the theory and practice of NDT. I also made many judgment calls about what techniques were suited to the "general" viewer, and which were the kinds of things that I personally would only want to teach in person (or at least under guidance). And then there was simply what I could fit into our filming/production schedule. I'm glad that you continue to find them to be useful for you.

In retrospect, what I really wanted to do with the DVDs was give the viewer a basis for a completely new way of interacting with their dog. And a path to really reliable obedience - particularly the recall. And a foundation for dealing with problems - though many people with "issues" have had subsequent coaching sessions with me for specifics on how to tackle those problems/opportunities. For many people, I figured that the DVDs could be a one-stop for their training needs - but certainly not all people. And my thoughts/approach have grown as well, of course - as have Kevin's since then.

Overall, the important thing to remember is that the techniques are important in the larger context of what you're trying to do with your dog. So pushing is great, of course - but WHY are we pushing? And is the WAY that we're pushing serving that need? Sometimes you need to adjust to take things up a notch. And, also, to dial things back (to get the kind of relaxation you're after, for instance). My desire is for the principles to make enough sense to you that you can be dynamic, flexible, creative in your own approach. You will develop your own style of NDT too. Because it comes from within you, and how you, personally, connect to the beings in your life.

I hope that addresses your question, but feel free to follow-up if you need to.

[neilsattin]

Here's a semi-recent post where I mentioned some enhancements (and the "big picture"): Link to post

[donnieo]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I think that maybe what was happening before was that I was getting bogged down with the techniques and lost sight of the intention behind them. Jinxsie started to hold back because she wanted more energy from me. Instead of looking at it with the mindset of contribution ("what does she need from me?") I was looking at the behaviour as something was going wrong. Kevin said something to me recently about seeing her behaviour in terms of energy rather than her self relative to my self. She was acting in ways that frustrated me in order to move my stuck energy. In this case, I was the one that needed to be pushed!

[Sang]

Originally Posted by donnieo

She was acting in ways that frustrated me in order to move my stuck energy. In this case, I was the one that needed to be pushed!

Spot on Donnie! It's never about the dogs. They just show us what we need to see.

This response isn’t aimed directly at you Donnie, but your experience brings up an important point, so I want to add this for everyone else who reads it.

Always remember that everything the dog does is right, because the dog is never thinking. Once one can get past the hurdle of seeing your dog as a thinking animal, and seeing him as a feeling animal, things become a lot clearer and easier. He’s only going by his feelings, and has no intention behind any of his actions. The only reason why something he does is “wrong”, is because we think something is wrong. So if your dog seems “stuck”, then always ask yourself what you can do to get yourself out of your head and stop thinking about it, and start doing something, anything, which will help you start feeling again. Which is of course what your dog wants, which is to feel you, and when you’re stuck in your head thinking about everything, he can’t feel you so he can’t connect, so he gets stuck. But who’s really stuck, him or the human?

So it’s a simple point I’m making, and one that I’m sure we’ve all heard many times before, but it’s always good to keep it in mind, or better yet, in heart.