Just a little vent

[donnieo]

Well this morning's pushing went very well. I was a little worried because last night I took Jinxsie on an impromtu walk through the woods and she ran off for a couple of minutes. However the experience didn't seem to impede our progress today as she was very enthusiastic about pushing and didn't even notice another dog passing by while I was giving her rub-a-dub. And, it made me a bit more aware that I probably should have been holding her leash at that point.

Anyway, while we were pushing today a few people passed by, one with a big husky and the other with a little shep mix. The husky owner asked me if the dogs could play for a few minutes, so I got a push out of Jinxsie and sent her off. The two dogs did the normal meeting thing then started to chase each other and the whole thing. During this time, the shep owner had this dog in a sit, and was telling her "stay.....STAAAYYYY" in a very forceful tone. Finally this dog was allowed to get in on the action.

The little shep mix kept trying to plug into the other dogs' game, but the two of them were too into each other and were playing pretty rough. So, she deflected her attraction to the dogs by grabbing the rope toy on the ground and running around with it. I could start to see a very interesting dynamic forming between the three dogs (one that I've heard Kevin describe on Quantum Canine) and was excited to see it play out. Then, the shep-mix's owner stepped in:

"She tears those things apart. Maya, no! Stop! Stay! Sit". She took the rope toy away and grabbed her dog. Game over for everyone. Boo.

I find myself deeply affected by things like this now, for several reasons.

First, I feel like because of the understanding of dogs that I feel I've gained, I could really feel that little dog's pain. She was just trying to plug into the energy circuit that was developing between Jinxsie and the husky. So what if she tears the rope toy up? Who really cares? Why do people feel the need to have that kind of control over their dogs? I can only imagine what that dog's home life is like.

Second, it makes me afraid about what's going to happen to that dog. Will Maya become aggressive, fearful, hyperactive, neurotic? I've alluded to the conflict that my wife and I have about NDT and she's asked me not to do the work with her dog. This is frustrating for me because I know that it could help him in so many ways. He's a very high-drive, high-stress dog, but her solution is similar to Maya's owner: try and stop that energy from surfacing. All that ends up happening though is a game of Whack-a-Mole: stop the energy from surfacing in one area and it pops up in another.

Lastly, it brings back the flood of guilt I feel for being that person for the first 8 months that Jinxsie was in my home. What was I really trying to accomplish? Most of the time that I was trying to "be the pack leader" all I could feel was stress, anger and fear. I'll never forget one time when I had Jinxsie out on one of our walks. I had her on umbilical and was trying to get her to follow me by walking around posts and trying to mess her up, a la Brad Pattison (canada's aggro version of the dog whisperer). We stopped at a crosswalk and I made her sit by pulling up on the leash. She was sitting and I made some kind of sudden movement. Startled, she jumped out almost into traffic. I can't say that it was at that moment I knew something wasn't right about this training, but it wasn't long after that I discovered NDT. If only I'd been able to find this info earlier, like before I got my dog. I think things would be so different now.

I know that people are all doing the best they can: Maya's owner is doing the best she can. But some people's "best" is not that great and this is what I get frustrated with. Why do people continue down the same path despite the obvious damage it's causing?

Ah, I don't know. I just needed to vent a little bit.

[Chris]

I know how you feel, since working with NDT I see SO many stressed dogs it's like they are everywhere. In our job 2-3 times a week clients will turn up with their hunting dogs and man the trapped energy in those dogs and the forceful methods used to control them. One guy has a lovely well behaved dog and he does some dog training, I came close to calling him re Ty until his last trip were I asked him to get the dog to wait for a moment, he asked the dog to 'wait' but the dog moved an inch and suddenly I saw the dog cringe like it was about to be hit and turned and the owner had his fist ready if that dog moved again. As you can imagine I didn't ring him.

I also feel the guilt of the control freak I was and sometimes still suffer from over the dogs, what I wouldn't have done to have learnt about NDT 20+ yrs ago.

[Up Da Crick]

Hey Donnie
Sounds like jinxie is workin out better with the NDT, congrats. I think its ok to step in when someones out of line on the dog, like if what chris said the man went at the dog with a fist i would have to stand up against that. or blatent verbal abuse-(in the context of a dog park). Even that lady with the shep. i'd try a "ohh its ok, thats what they're meant for" insist shes wrong lol.

....
I read your post like you've got some guilt assosiated with yourself. reconsider this,
1) you took a stab at raising a puppy with the intention of providing good training and until you found NDT, some of what was being taught connected or showed results of something passable for discipline/control
2) you read into another method down the road and by the sounds of things you took in like a flip of a switch and began your own training and discipline.
3) you're making progress and your awareness of others & there dogs allows you reflection on your own handler treatment.

Hopefully i dont step on toes but your bearing guilt for not doing what you didnt know ahead of time? Forigve yourself, im sure your dog forgives you every day when she pushes.
I see calmer dog every time (im usually inciting play by big preyful antics until she starts juking and dodging in pouncingly, and with immense power; quite beautfiul)


I Just want you to know that its time to chill, cool your jets cus you've got a dog that isnt prone to chronic misbehavior or outbursts of violence, YAY!
I myself would like to vent time to time too. We all go through phases and times where our Best is not shining as brightly as we know it can. like a cloudless sunny day bright and beautiful; Ripening and vigorous growth everywhere. That is our best our brightest.
And just as we have sunny days we get cloud covered dull dreary and wet days that play an equally important roll in growth and maturity of life. we live off of the sunny and cloudy days. I'm making this analogy in point against your guilt. Do not put yourself through the ringer cus there was some cloud cover before finding NDT. there will be more and they're important too. for 1 jinxsie is reflecting this guilt back to you when you have it stored,
2 you cant change the history, just your feelings towards those thingless objectless thoughts.

I know that people are all doing the best they can:

This I blatently disagree with.
Not everyone does there best, any time they do anything.
It takes confidence and a self-assuring attitude among other traits to have a person do their Best no more than all the time. sounds like a workaholic, thats hard on a person, imagine going for an A+ on crossing the street, brushing your teeth or surfing the web.
I see more people with stress than i see people combating stressful issues and growing from it. So the options there; heres hoping for the best :0)
Not everyone has solid reliable tools available for every job. nor have do they have the capacity to operate the best tool efficiently for maximum production. plus those that do not have those tools are really at a disadvantage and have less chance of being able to do the best, and end up wtih a good attempt.
Results always vary when practice is just practice and when a person is inadequately practiced for a job/duty.
humans and dogs share this. My dog started out not doing anything with a ball, then i got her in chase for a couple throws, now im tossing a big ball the size of her head and she grabs it no problem. I saw her grab it out of mid air and prance around in a speedy motion, i was tickled with laughter.

And the Tug was just as hard in different ways. but some liver rubbed on it playful antics and allowing her to win all the time has made the tug a viable resource for expending energy.

I have my problems too tho.
I got NDT before the dog. I had the tools, i read through the whole book, i went back and did some highlighting of important parts (turns out more than half the book is yellow now). I had the tools the resources here for help, I didnt have practice nor was i aware of the temperment i would be lving with in the future. i wasnt aware of MANY MANY things and therefor my best was not there. I wanted to do my best, but i wasnt doing it. I always thought that i was trying to provide good welfare for my dog and better welfare than the previous owner gave his litter. For me and my dog, living with one another was a strange new dynamic both of us were unaccustomed to. My dog grewup away from daily, close, energetic human contact for 11months. She also had to deal with my dose of energy and my time where i sit down n relax 2 strange dynamics that left me with challenges. Then I changed my routine after further research from kevins book. And now i have less barking in general, more drive towards me.
But still working on focus and concentration to me. in playful states its hard to quell the emotions and have her recall on a whim or stop in full stride without a yell or whistle, But i call hername and back peddle and it gets her running towards me. try to do it quickly so shes not assosiating the yell with a stop in eneregy. Im not always at my best and I am disagreeing with you because thinking everyones attempting there best is a flakey concept. allows too much leway for people to achieve there best and settle for their attempt "well at least you tried your best....". I know i can always do better; just takes time, practice, determination comittment and a few other qualities.

Well i dont think i ended this where i thought i would, but i gave it a shot, because what you wrote meant something to me.

Thanks for writing that Donnie, It gave me a lot of reflection for my self while reading and replying.


Your doing good with Jinxsie,
be mindful of your emotions.
Life is bound to give you shocks, its what lets you know your living. Kinda like checkpoints.

[SchnauzerMan]

Yeah, that's a little crazy that the shep owner was that paranoid. After all, their dog wasn't biting or bugging you, so why does he care? But maybe he was worried you'd be mad if his dog ripped apart the rope toy? Many dog owners do not have an easy-going feeling about ANYTHING.