general advice

[Hollydog]

Hi I am new to this training. I have a english working cocker spaniel, Holly, is is five - six in August - with an extremely big prey drive, she can find a game bird with no problem. She is generally well behaved and quite biddable. she is probably a little anxious, very wary of other dogs etc. She loves to fetch a ball and is sometimes over protective of it especially when she is near me, if I throw it and another dog goes for it she will withdraw. She tends to get picked on my other dogs.
my main problem is her chasing game birds and deer. She knows the whistle recall. She does always come back to me.
I have started the pushing which she seems to like
She doesn't seem to enjoy the tug. I have tried it with a ball on a string - mainly because she loves retrieving a ball and carrying it around. She seems not to like the string and refuses to fetch it at all.
Any suggestions gratefully received.

PS I have tried lots of training - been out with an ex-police dog trainer, gun dog trainer and have used bot a clicker, and an ecoller

[Sang]

Welcome to the forum and NDT.

I'd say that at this point, just focus on the pushing for now. The fact that she gets picked on, and how she's overprotective of her ball are signs that she's holding on to deep seeded fear that she can't move. Getting a REALLY strong push from her is going to open the emotional valve so she'll be open to playing tug with you. But for now, don't worry about it too much. It will come in time.

[Hollydog]

many thanks for your reply, I am only doing pushing at the moment. She seems to really enjoy it, I think doing it first thing in the morning before breakfast and mixing chicken in her meal helps lots. We where out walking this morning and out popped a pheasant - she saw him and got excited but managed to stop herself and come to me for a bit of pushing.

I am unsure about the long line (long lead) unsure why we need to use it can any one explain. She doesn't go far away from me and will come back within a few minutes if she goes after a bird. It gets in the way on long walks in the countryside.

[Margot]

If your dog already has a good recall you do not need to use it.

Many people's dogs are at a stage where they cannot be trusted not to run off when they start with NDT and the long leed gives them some control over the dog as many of the exercises are best done off lead.

M

[rudy]

Yay! Someone else with a cocker!

I have 2. Rudy is 13 yo. I got him when he was just about to turn 4. Lou is my youngster. About a year and a half ago he showed up at my back door in the middle of the night. No one was looking for him and he waggy-butted his way into my heart so he stayed I'm thinking he's 2ish yo.
It's so crazy because they are both buff - the same shade and almost the same size!

Wow do they love game birds! Geese abound where I live and I call them Cocker spaniel crack. When it's just me and Rudy, I let him flush/chase birds. Lou, however, is my opportunity dog so the only prey he gets to chase is me

Lou and I have been pushing for just over a year. He gets 99% of his meals during play/training.

His tug was non-existant for a loooooong time. Of course, he will fetch like a maniac. This fall I started hitching him up to a small tree and antagonizing him, sort of, with a long tug toy. He would eventually give me a little bit of an annoyed tug. In January, I backed way up with his NDT stuff. We did box work and push only - well we do panick downs, too. In fact, when he fetches as he is running toward me with the ball I'll start running away and when he catches me we push. That gets him to drop the ball for another go and I think it helps un-charge the ball if that makes sense.

In the last few weeks I thought I'd try tug again. I posted him up to a tree and walked away to get the rope toy and he started barking like crazy. And hallelujia, when I came back he all but attacked the rope toy, tugged like crazy. These days he'll even chase me to get ahold of the tug. I keep each tug game pretty short and let him win after he tugs hard. I then give him LOTS of gooood boy praise. I ask him to speak and give him some food. And then tug again. We do this 4-5 times and then I stop - I like to stop while he is still interested.

Lou is field bred so he will work the live long day - he would make one heck of a hunting dog. When I run out of food for training, I start working him. He wears a backpack to go running with me. He has a pulling harness and will pull from 7-15 lbs on walks. Though if we are in public I always have a few treats on hand just in case...

I'd love to see pics of your pup

Lacey

[rudy]

One last thing - I'd use the long lead (I'd use a short lead!) so she can not go after a bird or anything else. You will make things move along faster with her training if you are the only prey in her life.

[Hollydog]

Guys many thanks for your advice. I only do the push with the morning feed, its to difficult in the evening unfortunately given when I come home from work it's cooking for the family etc,
What I have found interesting is lately when she flushes a game bird she has been much more controlled. She doesn't take off as far and will always come back.
as i have said her retrieve is not a problem, she will come back with the ball drop and then off again. In controlled training sessions she will sit wait retrieve stop on the send away turn on the whistle etc,. I don't work her but we are walkers and go on walking holidays so raining and going up mountains don't really fit in - if we are walking then we have to focus on that given we are out of 10 hours or so!
I have just got the Natural Dog training book - I would like to understand the principles of the training and then take it from there.
I will continue to push for now, but will introduce the tug when she seems more settled, she is quite nervous.
many thanks guys
PS Lacy Holly is a blue roan;