Help with training a birddog

[joframe]

Hi there
I am looking for some urgent help....! I am new to NDT and just at pushing stage with my 3 dogs. One of them is a 9 month lab retriever that I want to train as a gun dog (I think you call them bird dogs in the US?). I started the training last week and my problem is keeping him steady while the dummy is thrown for other dogs. The trainer says to keep him quiet with whatever method works for me and restrict his freedom to on the lead this week. Kevin gave me some advice through his blog - pushing for food and pushing for the dummy - but I'm not clear what I should be doing. Has anyone any advice on what the NDT approach would be to getting him sitting steady and quiet in the line while the dummy is being thrown for other dogs - so that he can ground his energy into me? Kevin said to get him to push for food then for the dummy, which I have tried but if he does push for the dummy and I let him have it, he runs off and self-satisfies on it. There's maybe some more steps I need to build up? I think maybe the dummy is too high value. Possibly also need to get the NDT technique stronger before continuing with the gundog training? Any thoughts - the next training day is tomorrow But I could always delay while I get my head round this!

[Sang]

I would actually delay the training classes until he's at least a year old. He doesn't have the emotional capacity built up yet to handle that situation and all that stimulation without frying his circuits. It's just going to make him a nervous dog in the field. I would take him out of that class, or any kind of structured class for that matter, until he's at least a year old. Once his temperament is more hardened, then he'll be able to handle the stresses of that kind of environment without the negative side effects those environments can create for young dogs.

Instead, I'd spend the next few months focusing on your relationship with him, building his drive, continuing working on the pushing for food and for the dummy. Make sure he's on lead when doing these exercises too, so you still have control to guide him. Example: when he pushes for the dummy and you let him have it, keep a hold of the dummy with one hand, and with the other, start putting a little pressure on the leash to guide him into some forward motion, the goal being to get him to walk with the dummy in his mouth. He'll likely drop it almost immediately, but that's ok if he does. Just repeat the exercise.

You can also try to use another identical dummy to entice him to drop the one he has, and come to you to push for the other one.

[joframe]

Sang
thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly with my 'urgent' plea - I am happy with that as an approach and will do as you suggest. That also gives me much more time to get comfortable with the NDT approach before learning the gundog stuff as well. I am so pleased with the pushing effect on my hamiltonstovare - for the first time in 5 years of his life he is looking to me for fun rather than scenting- really thrilling!

[joframe]

I am looking for help with the next stages of my labrador retriever. We have postponed the gundog training for the meantime and we are working through pushing for food, pushing for the dummy, box work (just getting on and staying on at the moment) and heel work (off lead - long-line trailing). I have a specific question about exuberance (my pup is 9.5 months old now). Archie is pushing for the dummy - I use two and he spits one out to get the other. He is a bit hyper about it though, and at times will fight to get both in his mouth and will also jump up to grab them when I go to take them away - making me the receiving end of bites (if only accidental). I'm not sure how to address as I'm trying to avoid correction (?). any advice?

[rudy]

Hey, I think the toy-hogging and jumping to grab the toy is "normal" excited/excitable puppy. How fabulous that your dog is so excited about playing push/tug with you!! (jealous!!)

Have you done any calming/relaxing work? I'm laughing just writing it... seems impossible I know. I've spent a lot of time with young Labs Field trial labs at that - they want to WORK.

I think we want our play-training time to be fun and vigorous but not out of control puppy insanity. You could try incorporating box work into your tug/pushing sessions. That's usually good for getting a dog to center.

Or, when puppy starts getting too worked up you could try sweetly asking your pup to lie down - not a command just an encouragement. Once pup is down you give him nice long rubs all down his body like message, then give some belly rubs. When he is calm for a bit, you start with the pushing/tug again. Relaxing is a skill, so be patient. You may not get too far at first, but keep trying.

I have a young cocker who also wants to WORK. I've found that I can keep Lou's energy where I want it if I add some fetch to the play-training. He gets overwhelmed if I do too much tug at once, so mixing it up like that keeps him focused and the running helps to keep his energy flowing.

I'll let him walk around for a minute or two to warm up and relax. Then I play a round or two of tug. Then I use a Chuck-It to throw a tennis ball for him to fetch. As Lou runs back toward me with the ball, I take off running away from him. When he catches me I say Ready? and he drops the ball and pushes for food. Then I whip out his rope tug and we tug (he always goes for my end of the rope...why??). He wins the tug! I ask for Speak. He speaks for food. Then fetch again. Repeat repeat repeat.

Just a thought.

[joframe]

Hi Rudy
thanks for the advice - sounds like a really good system to try out - just short amounts each time. I will try the relaxation as well although think it will take a while - if I stop playing he puts his nose down and tries to see if he has missed any food! I think with time he will catch on - I'm still adjusting to playing with the puppy in such an interactive way and its great fun.

Really helpful stuff

thankyou

[yaufent]

Luckily he was wearing gloves. But his response to my apologies was "That's ok, she's just being a dog". Thankfully there are still good and understanding people in the world.