Liability Lou

[rudy]

Early in October I got up in the middle of the night for a snack. Looking at me through my glass back door was a buff cocker spaniel. I HAVE a buff cocker, named Rudy. THAT dog wasn't Rudy. Sadly, people frequently dump their problem dogs (old, dying, hyper, behavior problems) in my neighborhood... I've been down this road before. But to see a buff cocker who could be my dog's twin, only 10 years younger, at my door was too much!

That is how Lou, aka Liability Lou, came in to my life. He is the definition of anxiety "opportunty" dog who cannot relax in pretty much any situation. Thankfully, when it is just me and my dog Lou is an angel - a furry ball of puppy fun. He is eager to learn and happy to try new things. Obediance work is fun and easy with him. But introduce anything that any dog would ever consider a target (well, Lou likes dogs ...but every thing else) and in under 5 seconds Lou becomes Cujo. He has bitten and wouldn't think twice about doing it again. (Don't worry, I'm in full prevention/safety mode now).

I cried happy tears as I was reading through your website, Neil - you speak Lou's language. I've been working with a trainer for several months and we have seen some progress with Lou and he has relaxed *some*. But there has been a missing link.... until now When Lou is Cujo it really is like he is standing there yelling/barking out "HELP ME! I'M SO OVERWHELMED and I DON"T KNOW WHAT TO DO???" When he is at this level he is beyond "sit!" or correcting or distracting... all I have been able to do is drag him away.

Lou is a now-neutered under 3 (I think under 2) yo boy. He looks like a field bred cocker. He has a lot of energy, a *very* high prey drive (and I now have a very high Pray drive ) and he NEEDS to chase and apparently to bite. I've started looking for an affordable lure coursing machine so help channel Lou's "drives" into something safe.

Lou runs 30 min twice a day, at a heel, with me and my dog out on a golf course - we go about 5 miles total. He carries a backpack, fetches, pulls about 10 lbs with a pulling harness, plays on my agility equipment, practises his obediance commands and his tricks. This solves the physical energy but I learned the hard way myself last year that you cannot run/swim/hike off emotional energy. It has to be dealt with emotionally. And that's why I'm here.

I've got a lot of questions. But I'll hold off for now.

Very happy to be here.

[Sang]

Welcome to the forums Rudy!

[neilsattin]

Ditto! Looking forward to your posts...

[rudy]

I've been pushing, some tug, and praising the BARKING for about a month now. We play push, heel, chase, and on-the-box (towel) stuff for both meals every day. I'm still learning how to be the most entertaining and interesting thing in his world

That little dog is pushing hard! He's only 25 lbs but it's a big ol push! He is flying into me, sometimes all 4 feet in the air!

We have mostly overcome 1 trigger - the golf course workers and their equipment doesn't set him into frenzy mode anymore. Otherwise, anything moving and/or making a noise outside is a trigger.

But redirection has gotten to be easy - just a matter of me saying "Ready!" Even if I miss the cues and he gets to Cujo dog level, my cue will get his attention and he runs back to me to push-for-food as I get him going in another direction. If I'm in the yard and Lou is on a long leash he still runs barking at X but often he stops before he reaches the end of his leash (not dragging me with him), so that is cool too.

Lou has a 90% recall when outside and loose. The rest of the time he still comes, but in his own time

My husband isn't into training or playing (he'll never be the moose) and he lets Lou out w/o a leash (yikes!) and Lou started to bark and run for golfers. Hubby said "Lou! COME!" and Lou ran right back to him... so I guess there is some carry-over.

He learned to bark-at-me this weekend. He's only going "woof" at me still but I'm sure the BARK will come soon. It's funny to watch the progress from smaking lips, to sneezes, to silent barks, to whines, to tiny little woofs.

Everything is as it should be right now. It's nice to have some Lou-management abilities. I'm still looking forward to the day when the presence of other humans doesn't make Lou sooooo uncomfortable.

[Alec]

Congratulations! That is great progress in just a month. You have clearly been putting in the time.

[rudy]

Thanks! Yes we are working/playing hard. I enjoy it but it is out of neccesity, too.

I have to admit, and need to admit, that my patience gets tried. The barking when he's inside is very loud and piercing and on some days it never stops. We could play and push for an hour and he may still come inside and BARK. He has zero battery life. So far.

I love Lou, so don't take this the wrong way. But I also get frustrated on occasion because I wasn't looking for a 2nd dog. Much less a second dog with serious barking and biting "opportunities" and medical issues. He was up for adoption until last week when we decided that that was pointless really. He isn't adoptable, right now. And I love him. So I'm willing to do the work so that he will come around. He really is a great dog.

This morning, after a few minutes of pushing/playing I had to own up that I'm just not up for it (my battery life must be low too) and that there were too many distractions and I had to stop. He was distracted by neighbors dogs who were tied out and fighting each other. I put my hand on his back and he snapped at my face - it was a very lame attempt on his end, not even a threat. But I was FRUSTRATED. There was no ability to say "gooood boy Lou" left in me. So I stopped and put Lou in his crate (where he is now howling and barking). Taking deep breaths and trying to relax.

I'm packing up for my backpacking/canoe trip with the pups - I've got stuff everywhere and food out... and I've been trying to keep Lou out of it all (and rudy) all morning. That doesn't help my patience either. I know we'll have a great time out in the woods though so that will be refreshing to MY battery.

It is going to be a beautiful day so I'll take them out for a nice brisk walk here in a minute and we'll all feel better

[rudy]

I'm not exactly sure where else to post this... so I'll keep this area as the Lou show

I took my 12 yo cocker Rudy and Lou backpacking and canoing with my 2 sisters and their 1.5 yo pitt retriever x, Basil. We were gone 4 days and 3 nights.
Within the first hour my sisters renamed Lou "psycho dog". But things did get better.

I asked them to confidently grab ahold of his leash, holding him out away from their body for safety, and then just walk. After about 3 seconds of cujo he settled down and walked with them, one at a time. They then switched off command of the leash the whole first day. Lou was GREAT as long as he was in the flow and we were hiking but when we set up camp things were challenging.

Rudy is rock solid with other dogs. Basil has fear issues and is food bowl aggressive at about 20 ft. She and Lou challenged each other the whole first evening - I would grab leashes and walk with them to settle them down. But there was no friend-making between them.

Lou would be fine with my sisters as long as they didn't make any fast or weird movement - like raising the bear bag. Then he lunged for an arm or leg. He was either leashed (and thus barking) or wore a basket muzzle - he is acclimated to the basket muzzle.

He wasn't very interested in pushing or tugging. I did a lot of food motivated redirecting.

On day 3 things got interesting: As we were getting into our canoes Lou was aggressive toward the guy helping us. Of course, I couldn't really tug or push in a boat... so I put my hand in front of Lou's face to block him. Lou grabbed ahold of my hand and tugged! I only got a little nick out of it and he calmed right down. A little while later he got worked up again and I bent over him to touch his back to relax him and my pony tail swept in front of his face and he grabbed it, and then my hat, and played tug! Sort of cool - at least he's giving it to me instead of my sisters!

We had canoed to a canoe in only state park. We had the entire 100 acre park to ourselves. Basil kept running over to Rudy and Lou with her hackles up and growling... but this time Rudy, who has excellent dog skills, woofed, pounced and play bowed at her. She play bowed back, hackles still up and still growling. Rudy woofed and pounced and Basil took off running. She is FAST. Lou was on leash and LUNGING and barking. She continued to run circles around Rudy who would woof and bow. We decided to risk it and let Lou go... Basil could out run him. Basil tucked her tail and RAN circles and Lou chased, reaching for her tail when he got close. After about 30 seconds of sprinting large circles they stopped right in front of us - Lou came to me and Basil wandered off. I took off Lou's coat (it was cold) and he turned and grabbed it and tugged like CRAZY! This was by far his most intense tug ever. After a minute or two he started to growl a little so I let him win, YEAH! LOU WON!!! He carried the jacket off and Basil came up behind him to sniff his rear... and then flicked his tail with her nose as if to say, "Can I annoy you into chasing me again?" They chased and chased and chased. From that point foward Lou was an angel with Basil and my sisters. They could pet him and call him to come, feed him, move awkardly, etc. No problem. He was ok for them on a leash around other strangers too.

One of my sisters said that she thinks that Lou acts confused when he behaves like that... which is exactly what I've said all along. She wondered if he didn't see well or maybe couldn't hear well. Both his eyes and ears had problems in the past but have improved significantly in the last 6 months.

Since we've been home he's been less barky and less trigger-happy. I'm sure he is physically tired - I made him carry a 4 lb backpack. But he is so calm for Lou. I know that being outside for extended periods of time is very theraputic for me and it was for Rudy back in the day too, though I don't know the hows or whys of it.

Maybe spending all that time with stranger humans and dog he decided that "the danger" isn't humans or dogs?

Something clicked in Lou's brain - I'm not sure what it was. But I like it. I'm going to do more hiking trips with him.

[Sang]

That is awesome! Thanks for sharing!

Sounds like Lou finally reconnected with his heart. The being outside and hiking with a group would definitely help contribute to Lou being able to get into more of a group mode. But his chasing Basil and then playing tug would have had a huge impact on his ability to flip polarity, and switch from balance to hunger. All the other outbursts he was having around the people were his way of coping with stress, and that was what he had always done, so in his world, that’s what works for him. But then, when he got the chance to channel all his energy by playing and chasing Basil, and then playing tug, he was able to fully express his energy in a way that he hadn’t experienced before. That expression of energy helped him convert all that incoherent energy into social energy.

The running and the chasing would have put him into flow, which then allowed him to get on the same wavelength, so to speak, as Basil and everyone else. And once he can feel everyone around him, what you want becomes what he wants. Whereas normally he is experiencing the world through the filter of his learned instincts and personality, which would make it impossible for him to feel the group and what the group wants. But once he was able to connect with Basil, it connected him with everyone else because it allowed him to start feeling you. Feel what I mean?

Great stuff! Sounds like you are making some amazing progress!

[Lee Charles Kelley]

Originally Posted by rudy

Rudy woofed and pounced and Basil took off running. She is FAST. Lou was on leash and LUNGING and barking. She continued to run circles around Rudy who would woof and bow. We decided to risk it and let Lou go... Basil could out run him. Basil tucked her tail and RAN circles and Lou chased, reaching for her tail when he got close. After about 30 seconds of sprinting large circles they stopped right in front of us - Lou came to me and Basil wandered off.

Except for the fact that your story involves 3 dogs, not 2, this is very similar to a scene from my novel, Like a Dog With a Bone, where Jack, the narrator is working with an aggressive Lab named Buster, and has his English setter, Frankie induce Buster to play with him.

This follows a scene where Jack and Buster's owner Abby, take the two dogs for a long walk together, with the help of Sloan, one of Jack's former kennel employees. Once they come back from their walk, they take the two dogs into Abby's large back yard.

The next trick was to let the dogs loose to see if they’d play together.

Normally I wouldn’t put Frankie (or any dog) in a situation where he was almost forced to interact with an aggressor. But a) Frankie has a way of defusing any tense situation, of knowing exactly how to act and react in order to either get the other to dog leave him alone, or get him to play, and b) I could tell from the softening of Buster’s face that he was now open to a friendly, and possibly playful, encounter with Frankie.

Sure enough, after we unhooked their leashes the two dogs ignored each other for a bit, then Frankie came trotting over to Buster, his carriage upright, but not in a tense way. Abby was about to give her dog a stern warning but I held my hand up.

“Just watch,” I whispered.

“I’m not paying the vet bill,” she whispered back.

“There won’t be one,” I said, hoping that was true.

Buster let Frankie approach, but barked at him, jumping back a half step with each bark. And with each bark his eyes broke contact with Frankie’s, though he kept a watch on him out of the corners of his eyes. Then Frankie, instead of continuing straight toward Buster, tried a sideways tack. Buster twisted around and tried a hip check, which Frankie quickly dodged. Then Frankie went into a play bow. Buster mirrored him. They each feigned a quick lunge at the other, Frankie first, then Buster.

They did a few more, then finally Buster jumped up, tore off, and began zooming around the yard with a huge smile on his face. Frankie followed.

“Amazing,” said Abby.

“It’s dogs,” I said. “You have to trust their nature.”

The boys did a dozen laps or so, then gradually tightened their circles, until they wound down into a soft-mouthed wrestling match, which ended up with the two of them lying on the grass side-by-side, breathing heavily, and smiling.

Sloan said, “This is so very cool.”

“I’m amazed,” said Abby. “Is that all there is to it?”

“Probably not,” I said. “Sometimes just bringing the dog’s prey drive to the surface like this can make a systemic change, but we’ll probably need to do some more sessions.”

Some people thought the scene was unrealistic. It's good to know you and Lou have proven them wrong!

LCK

[rudy]

Oh that's sooo cool Lee!

Dogs have a way of working things out, when we get ourselves out of the way... like you wrote, you have to trust their nature.

It helped in our case too that Basil likes to be chased and that Lou (and Rudy) like to do the chasing. Why is Basil willing to play the prey role and my dogs are not?

People don't believe me when I tell them I can see Rudy and Lou smiling... but they DO smile