Hello from Kansas

[Valerie]

Hello, I'm excited this forum is here. I have so many questions!

But first -

I'm Valerie and I live in Kansas with my family and our first (as adults) dog - Eka (Ekashie Zoom - so named by my 4 year old twin boys). My husband, Ed, talked me into adopting her this last January but she ended up being my velcro dog and follows we everywhere.

She is now 9 months old and is a pound mutt who looks like something between a Wheaten or Briard terrier or maybe a bearded collie but she is only about 25 lbs.

We found out last week that her heart murmur is pretty severe so we are not going to get her spayed and she may only live a few years. You wouldn't know by looking at her, but after she went into her first heat a month or so ago she slowed down a lot. I'm curious how this will affect her training as Kevin talks about the heart being a big energy source.

Anyway, after we got her I threw myself into training and researching behavior and training styles. Started doing clicker training and lots of treats, and found after using really great treats she wouldn't eat much food for about two days. Now she is a picky eater and won't eat dry kibble. I'm sure she trained me on that score.

I became very frustrated with leash training, trying clicker and Lee's training from his blog and realized I was getting very uptight about her training in general and I also after reading Neil and Lee's blogs decided I needed to back off and go back to mostly just playing.

I don't even know now how I found out about Natural Dog Training, just somewhere in my research on how to train Eka and survive a very chewy exuberant young puppy. I really like clicker training and positive methods but after getting so frustrated with leash training I wondered what I was doing wrong, or felt maybe she was just too young. So I did more research than training for a while.

For the last two weeks I've been fostering a rat terrier, Barkley, who I believe was not abused but was maybe neglected or at the very least under socialized. It's been very interesting to see them together. And his higher energy and drive while being nervous about some human interaction and coming inside has made understand NDT a little better and I've learned a lot about Eka as well.

Even though I'm a bit skeptical about the 'energy' talk I appreciate that NDT has an explanation for why clicker/positive reinforcement and dominance and punishment training have all worked while each claiming the other type shouldn't work at all or not very well. It's a third path taking into account what's come before. I like third paths.

I just ordered Kevin's book and will be saving up for the DVDs. In the meantime, reading Kevin, Neil and Lee's blogs. And posting to this forum.

[Chris]

Hi Valerie

Nice to see another person new to NDT with lots of question, I am the same.

Also like you I was getting frustrated with other methods, it's also taking a bit to get my head around 'energy' talk but it takes time to get rid of old ideas and take up something but hopefully I'm getting there.

The DVD is well worth it, I just got mine this week and it makes it a lot easier to understand when you can 'see' how the pushing etc is done instead of trying to remember something you read.

Look forward to hearing how you go with the training.

[neilsattin]

Hi Valerie -

Welcome to the forum, and thanks for the great introduction! I look forward to more of your questions as you get further in your explorations of Natural Dog Training.

[Valerie]

Thanks, so glad you put this forum up!

[Valerie]

Beautiful dogs. I didn't know there were long-haired GSDs.

I will have to get the DVD as soon as I can. KB's videos on his site feel like crumbs and my book hasn't arrived yet! I need more...

And you do so much with your dogs already! How has it been with a dog you had already trained and a puppy who will mostly just know NDT? And I'm curious about the 'shocking' thing you mentioned in your intro... hmmm.

[Lee Charles Kelley]

Originally Posted by Valerie

I'm curious about the 'shocking' thing you mentioned in your intro... hmmm.

It's not necessarily related to using a shock collar. It's providing an interruption, something that "shocks" the dog's nervous system in a way, and gets her to re-focus on you. You'll learn a lot more about it once the book arrives. I wouldn't worry about it too much right now. Besides, from the sound of things, the last thing your dog would need is an electric shock...

LCK

[Chris]

Thanks for your kind words Valerie.

You will learn heaps once you get the book. I can't explain the 'shocking' but see that Lee explained it I also think its for when you get more advanced with the training.

The intersesting think for me is seeing the change in my older dog, he's my rock but with all this NDT I'm seeing a more relaxed Zeke who wants to interact more. Just shows somwething was missing for him too. I', really enjoying the slow but postive changes in the dogs.

[Valerie]

I wasn't sure where to post this so I figured I would add it to my intro thread. I'm still around and enjoying reading everything everyone is posting. I keep learning so much.

I'm still working on the crate training with Eka. It really vaulted our training to another level. Also I took her with me on a personal trip to Colorado and while there were some frustrating things about having her with me and dealing with how my friends were or were not ready to deal with a dog, and the fact that I still had to get work done, we did make some headway.

I think she figured out the box thing. All of a sudden she is excited to get on a box. I think what I was using originally was too low and had too much area. Somehow the trip helped her generalize some things. And realize I was still there. I was the constant. Even when everything else was changing.

Also I seem to have gone to Colorado with a Wheaten Terrier mix and come back with a Tibetan Terrier mix! Folks there think she is either Tibetan or the nicest Wheaten they have ever met. Plus her hair is more long and swingy and less fluffy like a Wheaten. Who knows. When I have an extra $100 hanging around maybe I'll get her DNA tested just to see.

So training even after the vault in the right direction, is still slow. Her pushing is getting better and better all the time, little by little. Her tug is getting a little more solid. Oh but I can't go slow enough in these two areas.

She is still humping me towards the end of our meal-time training sessions. Not sure if I should do anything or just keep pushing.

She is reaching the dry kibble threshold though! Just this week! She will actually eat some dry kibble out of a bowl! or for pushing! Before I had to add lots of cheese or ham or bacon pieces to softened kibble and then make sure the first few bits were of only the cheese or bacon or whatever and then slowly add a piece of kibble between two pieces of bacon. Then one to one. Really. I had to start every training session that way, slowly introduce the softened kibble into the mix each session. Then after several months, and the start of crate training, I could almost indiscriminately give her anything in my pouch. A huge step. And now she has actually pushed for dry kibble when I was in a hurry!

I can see progress, though I get frustrated with her, with myself. Her manners with other people and kids is awful, jumping, grabbing toys out of their hands. And she still snatches things and chews on them, when I don't want her to, if she is excited and has the chance. Fortunately she is not that big, 30 lbs or so.

Ok gotta go!

Valerie

[Sang]

Sounds like you're making some great progress Val! Keep us all posted on how things progress. But sounds like you're definitely on the right track. The fact that Eka is now eating kibble without all the fancy prep work is definitely a good sign. Means the hunger is coming back.

Originally Posted by Valerie

Her manners with other people and kids is awful, jumping, grabbing toys out of their hands. And she still snatches things and chews on them, when I don't want her to, if she is excited and has the chance.

Ha. Sounds like a good, healthy terrier to me LOL