New Emergent Behavior - Seemingly Unprovoked Aggression

[Cole26]

Please read my introduction tread for our history. Some quick recent history: with the crazy winter we have taken to training and playing indoors, though we try to isolate that to the basement. Since we use tug as a distraction for agitating stimuli (people outside mostly but it is getting less frequent) that is what gets played the most upstairs - though our Mal does not tug, she won't even take the toy if we have it in our hands, she just loves to chase after us and catch balls.

So the problem is this. Recently (about 4 weeks) our Malamute (Moya) has been skulking around the house at night. Usually we are doing something (some crafts or playing a board game or something) and there is never a problem. If we are watching TV she starts doing this. Our mix (Argo) gets all worked up and raises the tail and the hair along his back. They growl and bare teeth and even once lunged for each other. (This is not our first incident of dog-dog aggression, we know the signs, please see my intro post.) We are still working on recall so we use the words they always always always respond to..."Outside!". We let them out, they run around, they come back and everything is fine. Well at first, now she starts at it again in 15-20 minutes.

So I don't know who is upsetting who. Moya acts weak (ears back, tail low, posture slumped, and she stalks/skulks slowly sticking to walks avoiding open areas) while Argo is usually just laying by us at the foot of the couch. Sometimes he will grab something he knows he isn't supposed to (like a glove or a shirt and run around the house with it whining for attention, and we wait for him to put it down, we put it away, and then usually go play a little or work on commands or something with it) and maybe he is guarding that item (or us) and that is what is causing Moya's behavior. Or maybe he just doesn't like her acting like that...I know dogs don't like weakness or something like that. The one thing I do know is that in all likelihood it is something we are doing (or not doing).

Either way, any idea on which is the root cause behavior? Any ideas on how to stop the root cause behavior?

Thank you!
Cole.

P.S.: I know I spelled "Emergent" with 1 too many M's, but I can not change a thread title once it is submitted.

[neilsattin]

It's tough to diagnose such a thing. Is there something that happened four weeks ago (from when you posted)? Maybe it had to do with the new season of TV shows - are you watching something tense/violent that your dog Moya is picking up on? Did you get a new surround sound system that's putting out a lot more sonic juice?

Some other change?

From your description, my guess is that Moya is responding to *something* - and then Argo is feeding off of her, putting his energy/stress into whatever random object he can find.

A couple options for you that come to mind:

Does Moya have a crate? Perhaps she needs someplace secure, dark, and away from the action to hang out while you're watching TV? This is the "management" strategy. Her freedom to roam sounds like its allowing her anxiety to flourish. Which then feeds Argo. Which then feeds itself.

A more proactive approach would be to take Moya outside when she starts showing this behavior - see it as a sign of increasing energy and tension - to play push and tug with her. I'd start by just focusing on her - and whoever stays inside with Argo should just focus on relaxation with him. See how that affects the dynamic.

If that doesn't have any major effect, try experimenting with just bringing Argo outside, and focusing on relaxation with Moya inside. See how that changes things.

Finally (if necessary) I would bring them out together - but play with them separately, you and your partner each focusing on push/tug with one of the dogs.

Also, now the the weather is improving you should (hopefully) be able to do most of your playing/training outside. Especially when dogs start exhibiting signs of stress I find that maintaining the indoor/outdoor structure is key to changing the dynamic for the better. (noteworthy exceptions of when you're using push/tug as a tool for dealing with some indoor issue).

Ultimately Moya will probably also be helped by working on her down/stay in drive - and the running down - on DVD #2 in the DVD set...It will help her gain some emotional stability when energized but confined.

Please keep me posted.

[Cole26]

I figured this would be a tough one to get at, especially without being able to see it happening.

About the time we noticed this behavior, Moya had been sick. She must have gotten into something in the back yard, because for 4 days in a row she had been sick (bad diarrhea, no blood, vet said all is good, it was just a bug or something rotten) in the room the two dogs share while we are at work.

After I posted this thread I had to leave for a work conference over the weekend. My wife said Moya was better (in regards to this) with me gone. She is convince I am the cause (which is a possibility, I guess). I have had a quasi-life-changing-event over the past couple of months (person struggle I won't bore you all with). Anyways, I have been trying very hard to be prey like and yet safe at the same time around her now, in case my mood is upsetting to her. If it is me, what can I do? What should I look for from her, in the way of signs of responding to me?

There has been no real "TV" change, but I have started to notice the behavior while we do other things now - which are not in the same room as the TV (which is why, I think, we didn't notice it at other times). We've gotten a lot better at noticing this so it hasn't escalated at least.

She has ....err, well two safe spots in the house. She has her crate she was trained in and is in the room they share while we are out. Then she has taken to climbing on our bed. We don't let them on the furniture as a rule (we usually take a picture if they do it themselves, it happens so infrequently) but with the bed, she always jumps down on her own as soon as we enter the bedroom. Our thoughts were that she goes there to feel safe...or to pretend at being queen. We'll bring her crate into the house in the evenings.

While she's skulking around it is usually between her "spots". Her spots being the places she likes to relax and nap in...under the mantle, under the table, behind the bookcase, on our bed. She's always liked being "sheltered" (for lack of a better word)...as a puppy she would hide under the bed so far we'd have to move it to get here out. I definitely think this is a safety thing, especially after you mentioned her crate. Since she seems to roam from spot to spot I though she wanted to be doing so, not doing it because she was trying to cope with anxiety.

In the end we'll do what is best for her, but I have to ask. Would a bed be any better or worse a place for her then her crate? She's a big dog, our house is not large, and her crate is ginormous. Would a smaller bed (the padded ones with sides) work our would it likely just become another of her spots, because she doesn't feel protected enough?

Also, at bed time both of them sleep (without any problems) on the floor in our room. The door is closed, we were told to do this by the trainer we hired as it would prevent them from getting in trouble at night as well as keep them from "claiming" the house as theirs. The later is bunk, IMHO. But now I am kind of glad we kept doing so. Could the limiting factor of our bed room be want makes it problem free during sleep? (also, I'm probably not being the negative influence my wife thinks I am when I am unconscious; along those same lines, I'd assume that her crate while we are gone is why there are no problems then).

We will definitely start working them separately when this occurs though. We'll work out a nice contained safe place for her too.

Thanks!

[neilsattin]

Hey Cole,

Ultimately I think that a protected, safe, den-like space is best. But your experience will tell - in other words, experiment and get a sense of what really makes a difference.

Our dogs DO reflect what's going on within us. So it's possible that your quasi-life-changing-event - and the ways that you've chosen to deal with the emotions you're experiencing - are having an effect. Not a given, but, again, something to consider.

Keep us posted!

[Cole26]

Thanks Neil! We ordered one of those crafts that are soft and fold up real small so we can easily move it around with us so she'll have a place all the time. Side note - finding one of those that was both large enough and sturdy enough was a big challenge.

I am now convinced it is Moya and not Argo, as you suspected - we have found that if Moya begins to skulk we just take Argo out of the room we are in (usually by grabbing the tug and playing with him for a few minutes) outside and then Moya will come in normally on her own. Once she is in the room, Argo can enter and she doesn't react to his presence at all. It's like she's afraid to enter the room 2nd, behind him; sometimes he'll be lying in the middle of the room (which I could see as appearing to "own" the room) but others he is just sitting under the window looking out.

As I've been moving back to a healthy place, returning towards normal again, I have not seen much difference from either dog. Good and bad news, I suspect. Good that I they weren't reacting to me and we've narrowed it down more, but bad because I am still rather confused on what is going on with her and my emotional state would have been something I could address directly.

With the warmer weather this past weekend, we got a lot of outside time. Last night they had outside time with us until almost bedtime.

[Cole26]

I wanted to let everyone know how much of a difference having a "safe place" for Moya has helped the situation. I can only think of one or two times in the month since my last post that the issue came up again - and it was nightly, sometime twice a night, before.

We purchased one of those collapsable cloth kennels for her (the cloth doesn't clash as much with a living room as a metal cage does). Argo doesn't seem to want one, he prefers laying on our feet. We put the kennel in the living room (the center of the house for the most part) with her pillow from her kennel on the porch (where they stay when we are out of the house). After a few days we stopped moving the pillow around and just got another for her indoor kennel (by this point she understood it as her space).

The odd thing is, he barely uses it but it has had a gigantic impact on her behavior. She has "skulked' a few times in the past month, but it only required out intervention/redirection twice. The other times she she will "skulk" right into her new safe place, lay there for 5 or 10 minutes, and then get up and be fine. That seems to be the pattern now. Every so often (maybe once every other day now) she'll wander into the kennel (walking or "skulking", lay down in there for 5-10 minutes to and then get up and come lay closer to us. It appears to be where she goes to gain confidence to come lie by us with next to her - something she didn't do much before.

Thanks so much for help, I never would have thought such a simple thing could impact a dog so much.

Thanks again!
Cole.