Just need to vent

[Chris]

Sorry just needed to vent and know you guys will understand.

Ty just blew having his only dog friend visit again

Zeke my old dog is a result of a very reactive dog many years ago, at 4 months he got beaten up real bad by a highly reactive dog and hasn't been great with other dogs since, while we had Bear he was Ok but not since then but it's manageable because I just tell him to leave them and he does.

When Mike brings Jess to visit Ty Zeke gets very barky and upset but within a few moments he settles and lets the younger dogs play. Jess goes and finds Ty's bone and chews it or runs around with it with Ty following her everywhere.

Today I was dealing with Ty as Mike and Jess arrived and asked hubby to keep an eye on Zeke, the next minute Zeke rushed past me and had a go at Jess (nothing serious) but that set Ty off to have a go as well. I had grabbed Zeke and hubby got Ty, everyone settled and I put Zeke away and the young ones started to play. A while later I put Zeke on lead and let him sit on the porch and all was fine with the other two playing over a bone and running around. Then suddenly something set Ty off and he had a real go at Jess and would not back off, I was holding Zeke back and trying to pull Ty off at the same time. Hubby fully grabbed Ty but sadly Jess kept crying and crying but I could not find a thing wrong with her, I'd say she got a big fright.

Sadly Mike is quite upset and commented he won't bring Jess back to visit again. The last of Ty's doggie friends gone and really it was a nothing in dog terms but I can't blame Mike only myself for not seeing the first 'attack' Zeke started must have added too much energy for Ty to handle.

We'd been doing so well too. Thanks for listening, just needed to vent, I'd better go do some pushing with the boys now and try and not judge

[Heather]

I'm sorry you had such an upsetting experience today. It is good to talk about it here, there's no judgment.

I don't know what the NDT model says about it, but I don't think dogs need to have dog "friends" outside of their human/dog families.

[Chris]

Thanks Heather, yes I don't think they really need doggie friends but it is nice to watch dogs play.

The joys of a reactive dog, never mind. At least I rang Mike and Jess is fine so that's good.

[Heather]

Chris, I don't know if you are on Kevin's site much, but awhile back he gave me some great advice when I had a really bad day with Happy. He coined the term "euphobia," which I think is fantastic, it is the hope that when things are going along really well that they will keep on that way, but it is tinged with a fear that they won't, it is basically our thoughts/worries causing us grief and isn't really about the dog.

Regarding the dog, because all progress comes through the "fault line" (the reactivity in Ty's case and also in Happy's case, although in Happy's case he directs his charge at me), whenever the dog learns something new, or whenever old, stuck emotional energy is released, the old behavior may resurface. Over time as all the old stuff is worked loose and they learns new ways of expressing the energy, it all smooths out.

It doesn't even sound like there was an actual fight, no dogs were hurt, Jess was scared but assigning blame and consequences is only our human way of handling things, the dogs are not worried about it

[Heather]

One more thought I had - I believe that dogs can sense when other dogs are not "flipping polarity", ie, when their energy is "stuck". So although Jess doesn't seem to externalize her stress, could it be that she also isn't able to stay in the flow with other dogs at high levels of energy, and she gets fearful/nervous (internalizing the stress) and can't recover from that? Then, the emotional collalpse she has would attract your dogs' pent-up energy, that is, she becomes the path of least resistance via which to download that energy.

So from that standpoint the dogs aren't doing anything "wrong," the energy dynamics between them just aren't going to work well.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Heather

One more thought I had - I believe that dogs can sense when other dogs are not "flipping polarity", ie, when their energy is "stuck". So although Jess doesn't seem to externalize her stress, could it be that she also isn't able to stay in the flow with other dogs at high levels of energy, and she gets fearful/nervous (internalizing the stress) and can't recover from that? Then, the emotional collalpse she has would attract your dogs' pent-up energy, that is, she becomes the path of least resistance via which to download that energy.

So from that standpoint the dogs aren't doing anything "wrong," the energy dynamics between them just aren't going to work well.

Good point Heather. My own dog Roxy, even when at her most reactive, has always gotten on well with herding type dogs, because they seem to innately know how to play the predator/prey game, letting Roxy flip polarity really easily. Roxy’s normal routine would have been see dog, run at dog, attack dog. But whenever she got the chance to meet up with a border collie or aussie, the other dog would instantly run away and get her to chase him. That would get the energy flowing, and then, they would both stop, and Roxy would flip polarity, take off in the opposite direction, and the other dog would chase her instead. They would then get along swimmingly from that moment on.

So if Jess is holding onto energy and is a bit stuck herself unable to flip polarity, then Ty, being as reactive as he is, would pick up on that right away, feel the collapse of his bubble bursting, and go into overload. And who gets credit for that feeling? The one who’s closest, in this case Jess.

The way I see it, no blood no foul. The energy just got too intense for a number of reasons, Ty got overloaded, and that was that. It happens and is just part of the process. And it’s good to experience that stuff so you get more in tune with what your dog is feeling. It’s unfortunate in human terms since humans place all kinds of meaning on it, which makes us feel “bad” about these kinds of things. But really, it’s just another opportunity dogs give us to be more conscious about what’s going on, forcing us to get more in tune not just with them, but with our own feelings and instincts.

Chris, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were to go back to that moment, if there was an inkling of a feeling in your gut about what was about to happen that just didn’t register. I always find that in these situations, I always have that initial intuitive feeling right before something is about to happen, and then it does. Of course you could also say that my feeling helps create the outcome, so it of course goes both ways. But it’s just another opportunity to help us learn to get out of our heads, stop thinking so much, empty our minds, become present in the moment, and really start feeling what’s going on around us.

[Chris]

Thanks guys, some wonderful ideas there.

It was interesting today as Mike called out and this thought of her having stuck energy might just be right on. Turns out Mike took her to the dog park today and a dog she normally plays with had a 'go' at her 'for no reason'. So maybe something is up with Jess that of course Ty would pick up on that real quick.

I'd say given the chance Ty would be a lot like Roxy, he just loves to chase and if we could get a dog he could chase then he could get into the flow and learn how to flip polarity better. I'd have thought Jess being a Dalmatian would have been a runner/chaser but she does very little even when Ty tries to get her to play chase.

You also might be onto something Sang when you mention did I have a gut feeling, Ty having a 'go' at Jess, not really, the one with Zeke at the start Yes. When Ty had a go at Jess I was still real mad that hubby had not held Zeke back as I'd asked so I could work Ty so I'm sure those feelings were getting picked up by Ty. I also was feeling uneasy about the whole thing so should have put everyone away then, all part of the learning curve I think and will do it differently next time. We've now had a chat about Zeke and how better we can handle him which in turn will help Ty not go into overload.

Sang your blog name "Honor the Dog' kept coming to mind, Zeke's always been in the background due to all the work we do with Ty and it's always been 'Oh Zeke's alright he won't make a fuss, he's fine'. Well he isn't so much these days and we weren't honoring his feelings at all. We will be from now on.

For me the dog stuff was really a nothing, like you say no blood, no foul and I'm sure it would be total sweet between them again if they ever got the chance to play. It's the owners that are the hard part. Mike is in his 70's and Jess is his 'baby doll' as he calls her so you get the picture, I try and discuss 'energy' etc and just get 'yeah, yeah' while he looks the other way so I don't push it.

Thanks again for all the help.