Chasing/possibly killing fowl

[BrownieNJoyce]

Hi. Brownie doesn't usually get energized by birds but for some weird reason when we were out in the yard and had just finished pushing/training, a bird fluttered in the bushes and landed by the fence (injured?) not far from us. Given that it was sudden movement and live prey, and more attractive to Brownie than me, Brownie dove for it and caught it and in seconds it appeared dead.
I was a bit mortified and wondered what I would do. Brownie solved it by walking with bird in mouth under the yew bushes (which have a two foot clearance from the ground), digging a hold and burying it. He hasn't dug it back up since (weeks ago now). I was out of food so I couldn't do any pushing with him. We went inside, with me still a little stunned about it and Brownie like it was every other time we go back inside.
It was our transition routine as usual which goes like this: I close the door, let him lick the food container, he follows me to the sink and when I wash my hands he goes to drink form his water bowl and then goes to lie down.
Guess that was that. Shows me that I am not the center of his emotional universe when real prey is close at hand especially when I don't have any more food. Usually I use the last bit right near the back door. Don't know why I did it different that day. I sometimes joke to myself that although I am not yet fully the center of my dog's emotional universe, I AM the center of my dog's food-iverse.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Drea

My questions are: should I move back to the main yard (farther away from Buddy and Baby) or should I continue to reinforce staying on the box and pushing even with Buddy close by and barking?

It sounds like Tucker still gets too charged up by Buddy and his pals to be able to handle settling on the box with all that energy.

For now I would focus more on just keeping him attracted to you vs having him settle on the box. Until he can give you all his charge and deeper layers of energy, then it's going to be really hard for him to settle on the box with all that energy moving. Once you can attract that deeper energy into pushing with you or biting a toy, then you'll have it available to channel into staying on the box while Buddy is barking and doing his thing on the other side of the fence.

So next time Buddy shows up, and Tucker wants to go towards the fence, get Tucker pushing with you just as you've been doing already. Then keep him moving with the pushing or some heeling with you as you get closer and closer to the fence. Don't give him a second to get distracted by Buddy. You're going to have to be fast and on your toes to keep him moving with you and engaged with you. But you want to make sure you maintain contact with Tucker as much as you possibly can as you get closer to the fence and Buddy. If you happen to lose him and he reverts to lunging and barking at Buddy through the fence, don't worry about it. Just get a hold of his lead, then just wait. There will be a moment, and it may be REALLY brief, where the energy subsides a little, and that's when you can get him to come back to you to push some more, or bite a toy, etc.

Right now Tucker just doesn't have the holding capacity to maintain the down. Once you get him to be able to maintain connection with you while he's moving, that's when he'll be more ready to handle staying in one spot at high levels of energy. But for now, he needs to keep physically moving to stay in the flow with you, so I would continue working on that.

Having Buddy around is actually a great opportunity, because he's giving you the chance to work with Tucker at really high levels of energy. As you mentioned before, if you can get Tucker to ignore Buddy, then other stuff will be a cinch.

Good luck

[Sang]

Originally Posted by BrownieNJoyce

I AM the center of my dog's food-iverse.

Good one

[Drea]

Originally Posted by Sang

It sounds like Tucker still gets too charged up by Buddy and his pals to be able to handle settling on the box with all that energy.

For now I would focus more on just keeping him attracted to you vs having him settle on the box. Until he can give you all his charge and deeper layers of energy, then it's going to be really hard for him to settle on the box with all that energy moving. Once you can attract that deeper energy into pushing with you or biting a toy, then you'll have it available to channel into staying on the box while Buddy is barking and doing his thing on the other side of the fence.

So next time Buddy shows up, and Tucker wants to go towards the fence, get Tucker pushing with you just as you've been doing already. Then keep him moving with the pushing or some heeling with you as you get closer and closer to the fence. Don't give him a second to get distracted by Buddy. You're going to have to be fast and on your toes to keep him moving with you and engaged with you. But you want to make sure you maintain contact with Tucker as much as you possibly can as you get closer to the fence and Buddy. If you happen to lose him and he reverts to lunging and barking at Buddy through the fence, don't worry about it. Just get a hold of his lead, then just wait. There will be a moment, and it may be REALLY brief, where the energy subsides a little, and that's when you can get him to come back to you to push some more, or bite a toy, etc.

Right now Tucker just doesn't have the holding capacity to maintain the down. Once you get him to be able to maintain connection with you while he's moving, that's when he'll be more ready to handle staying in one spot at high levels of energy. But for now, he needs to keep physically moving to stay in the flow with you, so I would continue working on that.

Having Buddy around is actually a great opportunity, because he's giving you the chance to work with Tucker at really high levels of energy. As you mentioned before, if you can get Tucker to ignore Buddy, then other stuff will be a cinch.

Good luck

Is there anything else that I can do to get Tucker to look to me to release his energy other than withholding food for days? I know that dogs will do this on their own, but I'm having difficulty to make him go "without" for more than one meal. I'll look into finding something more enticing than just his kibble soaked in water with cut-up hot dogs.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Drea

Is there anything else that I can do to get Tucker to look to me to release his energy other than withholding food for days? I know that dogs will do this on their own, but I'm having difficulty to make him go "without" for more than one meal. I'll look into finding something more enticing than just his kibble soaked in water with cut-up hot dogs.

What is it that's making it hard to skip more than one meal? Don't feel bad about skipping more than one meal. You can skip an entire day if you have to. I usually fast my dogs for a day every now and then anyway for health reasons, and on the day they get fed again, they're pretty freaking revved up to push. But they can be pretty annoying on the day they get fasted. Especially the black dog. She will NOT leave me alone on the days I fast them

So when Buddy shows up, some other things you can do are to run Tucker along the fence line which will get Buddy running along with him too. This will help get the energy moving and eventually it should help get them into more alignment. It won't solve the problem, but it will at least help dissipate the energy.

Then, you can also muscle Tucker around a bit when he gets too energized. Just start pushing his back end around, sweep his feet with a big stick, even step on his paws if you have to. Don't step on his paws too hard of course, just enough to put some pressure on them so he'll feel you. Really, just do anything to annoy the crap out of him. You essentially want to communicate to him, "You think Buddy's the problem? I'm the problem you need to figure out." This will sort of reboot the hard drive so you can rechannel him back to you.

Don't be afraid to be physical with him, because when Tucker gets into that state, he's no longer in his body. And you need to help him feel his body again by getting physical. Once you can help him feel his body, he'll feel you. It's kind of like when someone starts getting frantic and you need to grab hold of them and shake them to help snap them out of it. Think of it like that for Tucker. He's just experiencing more energy than he can handle, so he's going into overload, and you need to give him a nice firm shake to help him stop vibrating, so you can get access to him again. I'd be really surprised if he didn't give you some pretty strong pushes after you muscle him around in those high energy moments.

Lastly, have you tried doing the "Frankenstein" exercise, as Lee describes it. Or "Where's the Danger", as Neil calls it? Those exercises are specifically designed to help trigger deeper layers of energy in the dog. I think you and Tucker would really benefit from trying that exercise.

Hope that helps

[Drea]

I know how I feel when I go without a meal, so I must be projecting on Tucker.

I've taken your advice and started pushing him around a bit (when we are playing tug), and I do notice that that one thing makes him more of a magnet to me. It's all so fascinating.

I do do the Frankenstein exercise with Tucker and it works, almost every time. The only time it doesn't work to elicit a response of chasing me is when he's decided he doesn't want to come with me and lies down on the ground.

The thing that I've been trying to eliminate is the running up and back along the fence line. The fence is a cedar plank fence so there is minimal space for the dogs to "see" each other (they hear each other, though). Mostly, I don't like it because of the damage to the Iris that are planted in front of the fence, but also because I feel (perhaps incorrectly) that this behavior is fueling the "animosity" between the two dogs.

[Lee Charles Kelley]

Originally Posted by Drea

I do do the Frankenstein exercise with Tucker and it works, almost every time. The only time it doesn't work to elicit a response of chasing me is when he's decided he doesn't want to come with me and lies down on the ground.

What I generally do with a dog who takes that tactic is I continue stalking him, coming closer and closer. If that doesn't get a rise out of him, I'll race toward him, then when I see his energy really come alive, I'll run around him in a circle. (Dogs hate it when a "predator" goes around behind them.)

Try it and see if it helps,

LCK