Litter mates

[James]

Aside from don't do it!, and re-home one one of them, anyone got useful information on raising litter mates? I have a male and female wgsd at about 10 months.
They get together very well so far, but I understand that this can cause me problems down the road as they will bond to each other more than me if I let them spend too much time together.

I have recently been trying to reduce the amount of time they spend together or even see each other through the day. I am crating them in separate rooms, and they are both getting individual walks, exercise, and training.

What I am wondering is if I should allow them any time together to play?
If so how long should they be allowed per day?

What is a reasonable time frame I can expect it to take for me to develop a bond strong enough with both dogs to where I don't have to worry about the separation management?

Any early warning signs of trouble ahead, things I should be looking out for?

Thanks,
James

[James]

Anyway, while I wait, some updates..

Both pups now have their own rooms adjacent to each other.
They get alternate potty breaks, outside, and inside time. They go on separate trips to the favorite walking trail. When one pup is out of the crate the other pup is in with the room door shut, so they don't see each other at all normally.
Once a week usually on Sunday I do let them have play time together.. I am still trying to assess the impact it has if any on the bond I am trying to form with each dog individually to decide if this is a good idea.

both pups now eagerly play tug with me, it took three months (the total time I have had them) to get to this point, and I think the recent change of living arrangements and management is what finally did it as they now look to me for play instead of each other. Patience, persistence, and using a flirt stick/pole to generate interest in the tug toys helped also.
Spectre (the male pup) does not stray far after winning a tug match so it is easy to get another started.. Paisley (the female) likes to run to her spot in the yard (that place she brings objects to chew on) after she wins and I have to go moose like, whistle, call, or run away to get her back where I can entice her with the second toy, once she has that she again runs out to the Paisley shredder area of the yard where many a stick, plastic flower pot, terracotta flower pot, and lava rock (yeah of all things) have been rendered scrap within her jaws :-) The answer I am betting is to get her and him out on that new 50' leash and play elsewhere. The problem I have is that when I try even if it is just on a walk around the block, neither dog seems interested in the toys or even food/treats for that matter, they are more interested in the new surroundings (even though they have been around the block many a time).

[Sang]

Hey James, sounds like you've been making good progress.

As far as their lack of interest in you when out and about, have you been pushing with them for food? That will really help increase their attraction to you. Food and treats in and of themselves won't be a strong draw to them when there are so many more interesting things to smell and investigate, because what's happening is that they're just more attracted to the other stimuli than you. So to tap into their hunger and attract them more to you, the pushing exercise will really help in that regard. Just start feeding them all their meals through pushing, and you'll be amazed at how much easier it will be to get them engaged with you when you need it.

[Margot]

I am not sure all this separation is at all necessary. As long as you give them lots of your time individually and train individually. And Sangs suggestion to push is of course a good one. It’s the exercise to get your dog focused on you.

To me it feels like the separation will in itself be a stress/energy generator. Your best mate is stuck in another room, you know he is there but you cannot engage with him.

I would certainly let them play together and take them on walks together as well.

Just to add: My dogs best friends are two litter mates and their mother, all golden retirever/lab mixes. Their owner has had very few issues and these dogs are raised in a loving, playful and sensible way, though not with NDT specifically. All three are very stable and sweet dogs who love their people to bits and ar every obedient. They have also welcomed Butters into their yard and many other dogs.

[neilsattin]

In general you simply have to pay attention to what's going on with your dogs to decide what's best. Now that you've had them separated, when you bring them back together you'll be able to judge the impact that it has. Some people do just fine without ANY separation - but as soon as problems start cropping up, it's a good place to start.

In terms of raising pups, the time alone with you is THE key. But that doesn't mean that you have to keep them separated at all costs. See what feels right. See what causes the most stress - for you and your pups. That'll help you find the balance, I think.

Keep us posted!