Visitors to the house

[Michelle]

Hi:

We've been having problems with our 160 # Great Pyrenees, Noah, becoming aggressive when people come into the house. He used to be fine when people stopped by, but now as he's gotten older (turned two in April) we're never sure what he's going to do. He's actually put his mouth on two of our friend's hand. The skin was broken with one of them because he pulled his hand away - a natural response. We've tried different things - keeping him on leash when people come, having them talk to Noah and Jazzy (our female Great Pyr), or totally ignore them for a while.

Another incident was when an employee of mine came by. Noah & Jazzy were outside and saw her arrive. We were in my office when my husband let the dogs in. I left the office for a minute to check something and Noah went into my office and my employee (who he knew well) was sitting at my desk. She started saying, Hey buddy, how's Noah? Well, he snarled, growled, and he pushed her into the desk and held her there and wouldn't let her move. He didn't bite her or put his mouth on her, but it was a frightening experience for my employee and me. I came running back in the office and told him NO! and he backed off.

We could use some advice! Thanks.

Michelle
Toledo, OH

[mark]

someone better qualified will be along soon im sure....

but just to wanted to say your not alone,

my shepherd (lizzy) has big issues with people in the house, even the scent of someone having been inside will set her off running and barking in the house looking for the 'intruder'. also Ive found, is that lizzy can be sitting quietly, seemingly accepting someones presence, but the slightest thing can 'trigger' her... the person getting up, coughing - and something as direct as talking to her would do it.
the stress is there, its just waiting to boil over...

with lizzy, i think she is not a dog that can cope generally, so the house is the one place that feels safe - and bringing in a 'threat' is just way too much!

one thing i have found that helps, is rather than bring the stranger in, if i bring the lizzy and the stranger in at the same time into the house its ok
(i.e. go out with lizzy, then bring her back in with the visitor)
- its odd but it seems, if we all come in together then she 'accepts' them, part of the pack? i dont know why


im hoping NBT will reduce that inner stress, but until then i 'manage' her, and wont leave her to have the opportunity to bark at someone

good luck

[Michelle]

Hi Mark:

Thanks so much for your reply. I'm so glad we're not alone but I hate to hear about anyone else having the problem because it's a difficult one.

We have tried doing what you do - having everyone come in the house together with Noah and if we can get people through the gate without incident, that seems to work but we're always worried and always on guard. We also make sure he's on leash if we know people are coming over.

Noah never used to be like this. Our priest used to come for dinner quite often (once or twice a wk) and Noah got along fine with him. One time, Ron (my husband) and I were blow drying Noah in my office and we didn't hear Father knocking at the back door. So, because he's a frequent guest, he walked in and stood in the office doorway. He startled Ron, me, Noah and Jazzy (our female Pyr). Noah went nuts and if Ron hadn't had him on a leash, there's no telling what would have happened. Noah has gone for Father twice since he appeared in the doorway unexpectedly so now, Father doesn't come over anymore. Since then, Noah doesn't like anyone coming in the house and has put his mouth on a few hands of visitors. He accepts family members, but no one else. We have to keep him on a leash until he settles down. Now we're making sure if someone comes in they totally ignore him. We're looking for suggestions that might help us out with the situation. You're my first response, so I appreciate it. Makes me feel not so alone with my problem.

Great Pyrenees are guardian dogs, but I didn't realize to what extent. When Noah and Jazzy are on leash away from the house, they very friendly, gentle, and love the attention, but once they get home, Noah feels he should guard everything in sight.

Your dog is really pretty! How old is she? She looks like a white Shepard, is she? If I get any advice, I'll be sure to send it your way!!!

Michelle - Toledo, OH

[neilsattin]

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for your question, and those were some good thoughts from Mark. You're definitely not alone.

Would you say that incident with Noah, the priest, and the blow-dryer (now THAT sounds like a setup) was the defining moment (i.e. after that Noah never quite acted the same around visitors to the house)? It's often possible for a dog to pick up a "charge" in a situation like this, particularly since it sounds like everyone was startled - i.e. there was a LOT of emotional energy wrapped up in that one moment.

At some point, you're going to have to face that demon, directly, with Noah - but for the moment you should just work on developing a firm foundation with pushing and redirection, teaching Noah that as he feels energized he should be turning to you to deal with that energy. Ultimately he'll learn that even when he's feeling energized by a stranger at the house - but it's going to take you awhile to build up to that point. That's as much for your own benefit as it is for Noah's benefit, as you want to get comfortable working with Noah even as he gets more and more energized. You need to learn to stay calm even as Noah reaches the edge of aggression, so that you can help him deal with that stress productively.

For the time being, make sure that all introductions happen outside. Take a walk with your guest. Allow for plenty of sniffing and interaction (treats from your guests are good) before everything comes indoors.

Remember that an indoor environment is inherently stressful for a dog. Add to that the additional energy of a houseguest (raised volume of voices, hugs, etc.) and you can create a REALLY stressful situation for any dog, particularly one who's hyper-sensitive due to past experiences.

Once inside, keep everything calm. If things are going to be at all raucous, help Noah out by keeping him away from the action (in a crate is nice - although make sure it's a containing crate - like a plastic one - not a wire mesh crate, which can leave a dog feeling exposed/vulnerable). Once your guest is inside, if you notice signs of tension in Noah, use that as an opportunity to push (preferably outside).

One day you might have to work with Noah when the priest comes a-calling. But take it slow, and make sure he's dealing well with the non-religious guests first.

If that had been an actual intruder, Noah's reaction would have been a blessing. Ultimately you'll find the middle ground, when he can handle your true houseguests - but still offers the protection when necessary.

Please keep us posted - and let me know if this raises any other questions.

Also, I wrote this article (perhaps you already saw it) about how to introduce your dog to another person. It deals with "submissive urination" - but applies to aggression issues as well:
http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2...nother-person/

[Angelique]

Neil, Could I just add that having a sheet handy for covering the front opening of the crate can be really helpful for visually reactive dogs. It also cuts down on the eye contact curious visitors try to sneak in!

[Michelle]

Hi Neal:

Thanks so much for your response! Can't tell you how much it's appreciated!!! My husband and I ordered your DVDs and have watched them several times so that everything sinks in. Our only question is: How does my husband, who's 130# push Noah who's approximately 160-165#s? I'm only 4'10" and not in good physical condition due to problems with my spine and up-coming spinal surgery. I'm not strong and I don't think I could handle pushing Noah at all. So, we're wondering what we can do to accomplish this VERY important training aspect of your program.

We heard about you through Kevin Behan's site and have been in touch with him about his book. I believe we told him how the problem with Noah began and where it's progressed. He asked if we would consider making the trip to Vermont to have him train Noah. We're considering the trip after I have my spinal surgery which is scheduled for September 10th. We truly are desparate to see that Noah becomes the loving dog we know he can be.

We've been working with Noah all day long everyday. We've gone back to square one and my husband, Ron, is working on building trust with Noah again. He truly is responding exceptionly well. He used to steal food - everything and anything he could reach. A lot of dinners were lost to Noah's jaws either off the counter or off our plates on the table which were left unattended. This past week, I was removing the fat off of boneless chicken breasts and Noah came right up to the counter, was about to wrap his lips around the chicken when I said LOUDLY, 'LEAVE IT!' To our utter surprise, he backed away from the counter. A month ago, that would never have happened, let me tell ya!

A new problem that's popped up with Noah is that he's favoring his back-right paw. We've gotten to the point where we can touch the paw, but only for a short period of time and then he pulls it away. My husband has been massaging Noah and making sure he includes the leg and a portion of the paw. The problem spot is the between the last bone before the paw starts. I think he's sprained it. It doesn't stop him, however, from chasing after squirrels he sees in the backyard but he really favors it when he's been laying down and then gets up. Noah has a real problem with the vet. I took him to the vet when he had diarreha and the tech took the themonitor and just literally JAMMED it in his very sore rectum. He screamed and snarled at the vet tech - and let me tell you, so did I. No one can come near his rectum to take his temperature now. The vet can't cut his nails and I used to do this all the time when he was a puppy. We're concerned because he needs attention to this paw. We don't want to undo all the trust we've built up with him in the last month. We also don't want the vet to get bitten either. When he needed his tails trimmed once, he had to be given a tranquilizer. It didn't phase him. The next time, he was given a sedative by injection and they waited a half hour for it to take effect. He was so loopy, he could hardly stand and his eyes were rolling all over the place. He was truly sedated. However, when they attempted to cut his nails, he fought them tooth and nail. They got them done, but a vet tech had a long scratch down her neck from his paw.

Do you have any suggestions we can try to take care of the paw and eliminated all the bad experiences he's had with the vet tech? I absolutely forbid that tech to touch Noah and Jazzy (our other Pyr). Whatever you can advise us to do would be appreciated.

We will certainly work on your suggestion about Noah and strangers. It was very helpful and we will start doing that today! Thanks so very much for everything!!!! Take good care. BELIEVE ME - we're both trying to become the MOOSE!


Michelle - Toledo, OH