Biting leash

[Henry]

A friend of mine just adopted a nine week old cattle dog. I just got this email from her and was looking for some advice based on NDT.

"i need serious advice. enzo acts up on the leash, biting it, biting me, biting my legs and acting as if we beat him when we try and pick him up.

please. any advice? a dog trainer walked by and witnessed this and offered her services. obviously she would like more business but i'm not sure we can afford it. BUT we might have to do it. Did either of you do a trainer or have any advice for me? it's crazy. he actually really bit me today and i'm worried."

I'm obviously going to recommend Lee, as he is the only trainer in NY that I would recommend. But first I'd like to give her some advice.

[neilsattin]

It's really tough to say without seeing what's really going on. 9 weeks old? That's pretty young - what are they trying to DO on-leash? I might recommend just letting the pup drag a leash around for awhile (supervised) to get used to it. Frequently people get a young pup and then try to start training - when really what the pup needs is to get used to a new situation - particularly new people. To a 9 week old pup these new humans might seem more dangerous (i.e. predator-like) at the moment.

"acting as if we beat him when we try and pick him up" - I'd need to know more about what this means before I can even wager a guess. In general I advise against picking dogs up off the ground unless it's necessary for some reason.

Generally, though, if biting is an issue - I'd give the pup something TO bite, and use a tug toy to displace the biting of the leash/me/etc. onto something acceptable.

Hope this helps. If they're in NY then I'm sure at least a consult with Lee would send them in the right direction.

[enzo]

hi there!
i am the owner of enzo of whom amanda was speaking of.
enzo is 12 weeks old. we have only been taking him outside to use the bathroom. most of the time he is totally fine on the leash it's just when people come by and want to pet him he gets excited and starts to bite everyone then the leash tug of war begins. i know it's early and he's only beginning to get used to everything but i just want to know when to become worried of his jumping and biting habits and how to prevent them in the future. since he is a cattle dog we are aware of his herding tendencies and nipping so we just want to make sure that we do the right thing here. we have tons of toys that he plays with and chews on and when he bites our hands we withdraw our hands and give him one of the chew toys instead. it works about half of the time we praise him when he is being good and playing with his toys and end play when he beings to jump and bite. we haven't been yelling or hitting, none of that.
when he bites the leash we take a time out while he sits and calms down. it was suggested that we stand on the leash so he stays close by and can't jump. but sometimes it gets to the point where we have to pick him up and bring him back inside. we definitely don't intend on picking him up all the time it's just that he hasn't really learned the concept of stairs yet so that's why we have been doing so recently. when i spoke of him acting "like we beat him" i was more joking to amanda, i realize it's not natural to be picking them up. Just today though he sprinted up those stairs like a bat out of hell out of nowhere so that was great!
i realize that it is very early and he is still young but just wanted to gain more information, opinions on what we are doing so far and tips if possible. as of now we are juggling to keep up with the multitude of passerbyer's views on training which are all very different and some don't sound so great!

thank you so much for taking the time to read this and thanks amanda for all of your help and advice!

scarlet

[Henry]

This brings up a question that I have regarding NDT and city life. I think one of the problems that we new yorkers face is that most of us don't have backyards. In an ideal NDT world, we would only play with our puppies outside. Inside would be for resting and chewing only. But when you have a puppy that is not allowed to play outside until it has all of its shots, what should you do?

Scarlet,
My arms were covered in bruises the first couple of months I had Henry—and he didn't even have razor-sharp puppy teeth like Enzo! But man was he mouthy! I would squeal when he would bite me too hard and it helped a lot. I also remember that he would bite and play tug with leash. He just grew out of it I think. I can't really remember now.

My advice would be to carry a tug toy with you whenever you go out to use the bathroom. If people pet him and he starts getting mouthy and crazy, wave the tug toy around to direct his attention away from the people. Let him bite into it and tug a little. Let him win and praise him for winning.

[Lee Charles Kelley]

Originally Posted by Henry

My advice would be to carry a tug toy with you whenever you go out to use the bathroom. If people pet him and he starts getting mouthy and crazy, wave the tug toy around to direct his attention away from the people. Let him bite into it and tug a little. Let him win and praise him for winning.

Puppies feel the world through their teeth, so Amanda's advice is good. However, it might also be a better idea to take some treats with you so that when people want to loom over Enzo and "invade his space" (which is part of what's causing him to use his teeth on them) you can ask them to show the pup a treat, and ask him to sit, then reward him. That way you're not just redirecting his urge to bite into a tug toy, you're softening it by making the people he meets feel good to his stomach.

In other words: 1) People loom and reach down to pet Enzo. 2) Enzo feels this as potential danger, which is registered in his teeth and jaws, so 3) he feels that people are something that needs to be grabbed or bitten.

Contrast that with: 1) People approach Enzo with a treat in their hands. 2) He feels that in his stomach, and 3) sees people as something that satisfies his hunger.

I hope this helps,

LCK
And if Enzo's owners can't afford a trainer, we could work something out; I have a student who's almost ready to start doing sessions on her own. They could call her to set something up, and I would come along.

[freedom]

This brings up a question that I have regarding NDT and city life. I think one of the problems that we new yorkers face is that most of us don't have backyards. In an ideal NDT world, we would only play with our puppies outside. Inside would be for resting and chewing only. But when you have a puppy that is not allowed to play outside until it has all of its shots, what should you do?

[Alec]

Going outside vs. inside has been mentioned several times but is playing inside really that bad? As Neil could attest, there has been a ridiculous amount of rain in Atlanta for the past week; and as a result I have played inside several times with my dog (I had to do something with her). Her intensity seems to be up, but is this just due to the energy inside being higher? It almost seems to me that my dog is more comfortable inside as there are no distractions or noises and therefore will play more whole heartedly. I almost feel like she is getting more benefit (more energy is expended) when playing inside. As far as I have read, it seems like the reason not to play inside is so that your dog knows where to relax and where to play (almost like a big crate) but I have not had issues inside unless my dog has not been able to get enough of her energy out, whether that comes inside or out. I am curious to hear what the experts have experienced over long periods of time.

[Indy]

I'm also curious about this as well-- I do pushing outside, and most "planned" training outside. However, Indy will sometimes initiate play and tugging when we're inside.. and I've never had any issues with him not being able to calm down, or any detrimental effects from what I can see. It's not nearly intense as the playing we do outside, but he really seems to enjoy it.

[Henry]

Kevin had this to say when I asked him about Henry's ball obsession (The following is just part of his quote):
"Your dog has a basic insecurity which had been channeled into the ball which is why he stole the ball from other dogs. You may have mistakenly played with your dog indoors as a puppy and have gotten him overly stimulated with such play and by always making him the center of your attention, thus when he steals another dogs’ ball he becomes the center of everyone’s attention. While you have now successfully channeled this energy of insecurity into you, the problem is the ball; it remains a trigger of insecurity"

[Alec]

My dog steals balls as well. I always just thought it was her way of manipulating other dogs into chasing her but it seems that there may be more to this.