Growling during tug-of war

[donnieo]

This question isn't about my dog (who is progressing nicely; thanks NDT!) but about my partner's dog:

He is approximately 9 years old and is generally anxious: he used to have pretty severe separation anxiety (to the point where he was chewing himself, but this has subsided), will go through periods of nervousness inside the house, and, once in a blue moon will become "toy aggressive" with other dogs. He also has Irritable Bowel Disorder, which I think is related to his not being able to stay calm (he also tends to inhale his food).

My partner and I are unfortunately divided on the issue: she trained him with +R methods - which gave him a rock-solid sit/down-stay and he heels really well but this obviously didn't do anything to help him relax. When I tried talking to her about using NDT she was very skeptical (she was told by a lot of trainers that there wasn't much she could do to stop his aggression and to just try to "manage" it) and asked me not to use the methods on her dog, particularly the Push Exercise. What I find especially frustrating about this situation is that he seems to epitomise what Kevin, Neil and Lee talk about: a dog who has all the obedience skills but deep-seated stress that only comes to the surface occassionally. Also, I am in the process of changing my career and becoming an NDT dog trainer, so I don't know how that will affect things between us.

My partner and I live together and have for the most part worked out how I can train my dog with NDT while not using the methods on her dog. What I have been doing with him though is petting and massaging him during his feeding time, and he has started to slow down considerably. I try to keep things quiet inside the house and only play outside. Also, when I go to the park with the dogs on my own I spend a lot of time playing doggie-wins tug-of-war (I usually bring 2 or 3 toys with me). This brings my to my question:
when I play tug with her dog he gets very excited and growls quite a bit. While we play, I stroke him and try to keep him calm but the growling doesn't stop. I know that in Neil's article about tug-of-war he says to let the dog win as soon as the growling starts to get out of hand. I do that, but he pushes the toy back into my hand and continues growling. One thing that I've found that really helps is to play with two toys, so he wins one and then has to chase me for the next one. However the growling hasn't stopped. Given that I'm basically barred from pushing, should I continue doing this?

After re-reading the above paragraphs, I guess I have two questions: has anyone on this list had to deal with a lot of skepticism over NDT methods from someone who has a lot of interaction with the dog being trained, such as a partner? How did you deal with this skepticism?

[Lee Charles Kelley]

Has your partner read my article about pushing?

http://leecharleskelleysblog.blogspo...-trainers.html

It might help change her mind.

As for tug, what kind of dog is it? How old? How big? What color?

For now I'd do what you're doing, but I'd also throw in some tug-fetch to use up some of that excess energy and see if that helps.

Do you have Neil's DVDs?

LCK

PS: Did you get my reply to your e-mail? I haven't heard back from you...

[donnieo]

Sorry I haven't replied to you yet....expect something later today...

He's 9(ish) years old and some kind of shepherd/collie mix....black with a white blaze....she's had him for 7 years, since finding him under her dad's car with a fracture pelvis and road rash that covered most of his left side.

She has read the pushing article but her point is that he's 9 years old, has a routine and knows what to expect....just thinks of his anxiety as part of his personality. I can understand her defensiveness....she saved his life, spent thousands of dollars and hours to treat him and has done everything she could to make sure that he's had a good quality of life. I think that as I get deeper into Natural Dog Training's ideas she may come around.

[Lee Charles Kelley]

I sort of get the picture. Most people tend to define a dog's personality as something that's set in stone. And it's doubly hard when you've rescued a dog in this poor little guy's condition.

"He's been through so much, let him keep his quirks and coping mechanisms." (etc.)

After reading a little more about him, I would add a few more ideas to what I posted earlier, in that with a dog like this you probably want to be as "prey-like" as possible. Use that loosey-goosey stance Neil demonstrates in the DVDs a lot, get him to chase you a lot, zig-zag, change directions, fake left and go right, do a stutter step, fall down and let him jump on you, then jump up and run off again, etc. (These are all part of the "chase me" game, which should only last about 20 seconds or so.) Try playing a lot of keep away too, both while you're running and while you're playing tug, and see what develops.

I look forward to seeing what happens with this guy.

LCK

[Angelique]

I'd like to throw in that a nine year old dog with the medical history you briefly cite may also have pain issues affecting their behavior (the anxiety stuff comes to mind). Therapeutic massage may do this dog a world of good (hard to let the energy flow when the body is tight and range of motion is restricted by pain).

I have had much success with acupuncture as a path to muscle relaxation, allowing massage to be more effective. As the blood flows, so the energy flows?

[donnieo]

Today I tried acting a lot more preyful with Yoshi and gave up the toys sooner and the growling wasn't as intense! There were also a couple of times during our tug game where he didn't growl at all and just gave some good intense tugs; which is a big deal because a lot of the time he just pulls steadily and growls. It's all coming together....

I will keep the massage in mind and am going to look into finding a local pet acupuncturist....

[Margot]

Another issue may well be his diet. You mentioned he has IBS and that in itself can cause a host of issues. IBS is caused by poor digestion due to an overpopulation of the wrong gut bacteria, and their toxic biproducts. This can happen when a dog (or person) has had vaccinations, antibiotics, anesthetic or a diet too high in grains or overly processed food, or a combination of all or any of these things.

I would try him on a raw diet, starting with just meat and raw tripe, or probiotics (instead of the tripe), then graduating to chicken necks and wings when his intestinal output has been perfect for at least 2 weeks. He should eat no grains, sugar or other starches (e.g. corn or potatoes) whatsoever for at least 6 months, not even the odd cookie. During this time he should get regular helpings of green tripe or he should continue with the probiotics.

You will certainly clear up his IBS like this, and you may also resolve some of the behavioural issues. A human version of the diet I just described has helped children with autism, night terrors, ADD, hyperactivity, and of coure, some serious intestinal issues from Crohns to IBS.

If you want to know more about raw diets, google Billinghurst or Tom Lonsdale.